3 ms·

I'm really baffled at (e-)bike prices remaining so high. There's certainly not more research than what goes into cars, admittedly amortized over smaller product

I'm really baffled at (e-)bike prices remaining so high. There's certainly not more research than what goes into cars, admittedly amortized over smaller production runs, and battery packs should (should, but don't) cost very little (at 100$/KWh, my bike's pack should be a whopping 43 bucks, let's say 100 if we include the frame mount, the lock, the wiring and the charger). There is SO LITTLE material overall in a bike, with 99% of the tech having changed little since the '70s, so I guess it's not patents or IP either. It's not the wheels, I can buy replacements for little. It's not the shifting system, a crappy one is 100 EUR and a decent (low-end) Shimano is under 200. It's not the chain, those are 10 bucks, maybe 25 for the higher strength ones appropriate for an e-bike. It's not the motor, as I can get a conversion kit off ebay for 150-200, which includes a wheel and electronics. Yet, 25kg of ebike costs 12% of 1000kg of a low end city car, while using 40 times less material and not having to undergo all the same rigorous testing, homologation and what else. What am I missing? Is it all in the frame? Is it all profit? Am I looking at this from a completely wrong perspective ?

fulafel 5y ago
Regular non-electric bike pricing gives some good clues. There are decent bikes made by Asian ODMs quite affordably, with simpler but good enough parts like steel frames and 3 or 7 speed IGH. They're not that easy to find on the market because it's hard to tell them apart from the crap ones, and this state of affairs is profitable to people selling bikes. Also there's been a lot of consolidation, and there aren't many big bike manufacturing companies, so some illegal collusion is not out of the question.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  Another factor is used bikes. It's hard for a company to compete with that on price.
Aerroon 5y ago
I completely agree with you on prices for bikes being to high. I think the reason for it is that bicycles are considered luxury items. They cost so much because people are willing to pay more and there isn't enough volume in bike sales to justify large economies of scale that drive down the price - used bikes eat up that part of the market. If you look at bicycle parts then it seems like half the parts get updated once or twice a decade. Yet the old stuff was mostly fine.
turtlebits 5y ago
Retail batteries are not $100/KWh. If you source high capacity cells from China, you can get maybe $140/KWh. That doesn't include a BMS, enclosure, labor, etc.

fulafel 5y ago

Regular non-electric bike pricing gives some good clues. There are decent bikes made by Asian ODMs quite affordably, with simpler but good enough parts like steel frames and 3 or 7 speed IGH. They're not that easy to find on the market because it's hard to tell them apart from the crap ones, and this state of affairs is profitable to people selling bikes. Also there's been a lot of consolidation, and there aren't many big bike manufacturing companies, so some illegal collusion is not out of the question.

Aerroon 5y ago
Another factor is used bikes. It's hard for a company to compete with that on price.

Aerroon 5y ago

I completely agree with you on prices for bikes being to high. I think the reason for it is that bicycles are considered luxury items. They cost so much because people are willing to pay more and there isn't enough volume in bike sales to justify large economies of scale that drive down the price - used bikes eat up that part of the market. If you look at bicycle parts then it seems like half the parts get updated once or twice a decade. Yet the old stuff was mostly fine.

turtlebits 5y ago

Retail batteries are not $100/KWh. If you source high capacity cells from China, you can get maybe $140/KWh. That doesn't include a BMS, enclosure, labor, etc.