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As someone who has had both COVID (before vaccines were available) and a COVID vaccine, this reasoning seems frankly dumb as bricks. There is uncertainty about

As someone who has had both COVID (before vaccines were available) and a COVID vaccine, this reasoning seems frankly dumb as bricks. There is uncertainty about long-term effects of both. There is no uncertainty about the short-term effects of COVID, which are magnitudes worse than the short-term effects of a vaccine. COVID for me was a multi-week flu that scared the shit out of me because I didn't know how bad it would get or if I'd live through it. I took months to get my smell/taste back, three months to get back to previous fitness levels, hair loss, and significant mental fog and memory problems. The jab was one day of tiredness and I ran a marathon two days after no problem. I really can't fathom how anyone could put themselves and those around them at such great risk, rather than taking a vaccine.

icegreentea2 5y ago
Have you recovered from the mental fog/memory problems? As a 30-odd year old knowledge worker (vaccinated), that's the thing that affects my personal risk assessment the most right now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Tarsul 5y ago
sadly there are at least a few percentage points of people where that's basically the reason: they're dumb. I'm sorry, but it's true. Nonetheless, social media and other beneficiaries of fear mongering, definitely make this problem a lot worse than it would be without them. I have a lot of trouble arguing with these people (friends, family) because I read daily about how bad covid is and they are simply ignorant. For some of them it's basically "he said, she said" (so like: who should I trust?) as if anti-vaxxers and science are on the same level of trustworthiness. And also when you talk about data they say something like "I don't trust the data" and rather trust some stupid people in their social circle. Also it appears like they feel like "vaccination can be bad", "covid can be bad (but not necessarily, my daughter had it and it was like the flu!)", so they rather try to avoid both. Yeah, logic...
kottaram 5y ago
Thats your personal experience. Most of my friends who got covid without the vaccines never had any major issue you had. They took rest for a week and problem solved. One of my other friends, who was vaccinated, got covid and had to be hospitalised because he couldn't breath. Luckily he survived. A coworker, who was vaccinated, still hasn't got his taste back after getting covid around a month ago. Vaccine or not, you can still get covid and suffer the consequences depending on your body. So I dont see the point in getting a vaccine and suffer its long term consequences when it basically does nothing. If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data. More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less. Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more. The math isn't adding up for the vaccines.
- renaudg 5y ago
  You seem happy to be countering his personal experience with your own personal experience, and jump to the conclusion that there's no difference (wrong) and the vaccine does nothing (wrong) so why bother risking long term consequences (there's zero reason to think there's any from vaccines, while there are reasons to think there are many from Covid) If only there was a way to objectively assess these things... Oh wait there is, it's called "doing a randomized controlled trial on more than 3 people" and "numerous observational studies from real world data" And guess what ? From this data, you're 90% less likely to get severely ill and 95% less likely to die if you've been vaccinated, even with Delta. > If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data. No he's right. Still about 95% protection against death from Delta. > More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less. Wrong. > Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more. Still wrong. Unless you've been comparing vaccinated 80 year olds with unvaccinated 20 year olds maybe ? Being vaccinated makes you 20-30 years younger in terms of your risk to die from Covid (source : https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e74...) > The math isn't adding up for the vaccines. Thanks for the brilliant demonstration.
  - kottaram 5y ago

icegreentea2 5y ago

Have you recovered from the mental fog/memory problems? As a 30-odd year old knowledge worker (vaccinated), that's the thing that affects my personal risk assessment the most right now.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Tarsul 5y ago

sadly there are at least a few percentage points of people where that's basically the reason: they're dumb. I'm sorry, but it's true. Nonetheless, social media and other beneficiaries of fear mongering, definitely make this problem a lot worse than it would be without them. I have a lot of trouble arguing with these people (friends, family) because I read daily about how bad covid is and they are simply ignorant. For some of them it's basically "he said, she said" (so like: who should I trust?) as if anti-vaxxers and science are on the same level of trustworthiness. And also when you talk about data they say something like "I don't trust the data" and rather trust some stupid people in their social circle. Also it appears like they feel like "vaccination can be bad", "covid can be bad (but not necessarily, my daughter had it and it was like the flu!)", so they rather try to avoid both. Yeah, logic...

kottaram 5y ago

Thats your personal experience. Most of my friends who got covid without the vaccines never had any major issue you had. They took rest for a week and problem solved. One of my other friends, who was vaccinated, got covid and had to be hospitalised because he couldn't breath. Luckily he survived. A coworker, who was vaccinated, still hasn't got his taste back after getting covid around a month ago. Vaccine or not, you can still get covid and suffer the consequences depending on your body. So I dont see the point in getting a vaccine and suffer its long term consequences when it basically does nothing. If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data. More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less. Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more. The math isn't adding up for the vaccines.

renaudg 5y ago
You seem happy to be countering his personal experience with your own personal experience, and jump to the conclusion that there's no difference (wrong) and the vaccine does nothing (wrong) so why bother risking long term consequences (there's zero reason to think there's any from vaccines, while there are reasons to think there are many from Covid) If only there was a way to objectively assess these things... Oh wait there is, it's called "doing a randomized controlled trial on more than 3 people" and "numerous observational studies from real world data" And guess what ? From this data, you're 90% less likely to get severely ill and 95% less likely to die if you've been vaccinated, even with Delta. > If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data. No he's right. Still about 95% protection against death from Delta. > More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less. Wrong. > Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more. Still wrong. Unless you've been comparing vaccinated 80 year olds with unvaccinated 20 year olds maybe ? Being vaccinated makes you 20-30 years younger in terms of your risk to die from Covid (source : https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e74...) > The math isn't adding up for the vaccines. Thanks for the brilliant demonstration.
- kottaram 5y ago