8 ms·

These cheap shots or trench war between both sides does nobody any good, it divides people instead of unite them. For me the major issue with the vaccine is th

These cheap shots or trench war between both sides does nobody any good, it divides people instead of unite them. For me the major issue with the vaccine is the extremely fast track from inventing it to getting it out the door. An FDA approval will not change my mind on the safety of the vaccine, only time can do that. By that i mean that we need more time to assess the long-term effects, something that many pro-vaccine people seem unwilling to accept. That is unfortunate.

nojito 5y ago
>By that i mean that we need more time to assess the long-term effects, something that many pro-vaccine people seem unwilling to accept. That is unfortunate. We are way past the time frame for long-term effects to manifest themselves for a corona-like vaccine.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  This is not true. There could be birth defects or lower iq in babies born from vaccinated mothers.
  - acdha 5y ago
    There are an infinite number of things which could happen but there’s no mechanism or evidence making this likely. The vaccine doesn’t rewrite your DNA and it strengthens your normal immune response, which does none of those things.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Pluuuuuusssss... we don't know the long term impact of Covid itself. People who argue against vaccines don't seem to think enough about that aspect.
      - Izkata 5y ago
        Or maybe they're just arguing for the third group: people who already were infected and recovered. No need to double up on the unknown risks of you already have immunity.
        oblio 5y ago
        Based on our current information, that's at best 33% of the population. Realistically in most countries it's about 15-20%.
  - wombatpm 5y ago
    Or in unvaccinated mothers exposed to COVID-19.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Birth defects would have been observed already if they were a side effect of the vaccine.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    Those could also be long term side effects of covid. A double digit percentage of people who catch the disease end up in the hospital soon after infection compared to fraction of a fraction of a percent of vaccine recipients in the time after they get the shot. Your priors have to be absolutely outrageous if based on the currently available data you think the risks are even within an order of magnitude.
    - xdennis 5y ago
      > Those could also be long term side effects of covid. Of course, but it's a lot worse when a cure causes issues. The point of medicine is to "first, do no harm".
      - seoaeu 5y ago
        It isn't that much worse when a cure causes issues. People endure terrible side effects from treatments to cure their cancer. Nearly every medicine I hear advertised has some risk of causing serious side effects, if not outright death
    - 34679 5y ago
      3.2 per 100,000 is not "a double digit percentage". https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628...
      - seoaeu 5y ago
        A 0.0032% hospitalization rate doesn't pass the smell test. That's hundreds of times less than the reported fatality rate!
        34679 5y ago
        Call Israel and tell them they got it wrong.
  - cglace 5y ago
    I personally know 2 women who had covid, were hospitalized, had emergency c sections and then died. That is a known risk. Your risk is hypothetical.
- sharken 5y ago
  Do you have a credible source for that claim ?
auslegung 5y ago
I wonder would you have felt the same way when the chickenpox vaccine, or MMR vaccines, or any of the other common vaccines we get today, were new.
- odessacubbage 5y ago
  yes actually.
  - auslegung 5y ago
    It's an impossible question for me to answer b/c I don't have any knowledge whatsoever of what was going on at the time. But I think the question is worth pondering for people because it may help people realize if they have politics clouding their thinking here. Not saying everyone with your opinion has their thinking clouded because of politics, but I think many do.
evan_ 5y ago
> we need more time to assess the long-term effects You seem to be saying that the only issue is a question of time. Be specific: how much time? Will you say a specific number? “I will accept an mRNA-based vaccine if it has been around, and proven safe, for x years.”
- sharken 5y ago
  Something similar to the Rubella vaccine that took about four years to be licensed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubella_vaccine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubella_vaccine
  - oblio 5y ago
    My problem with this "we just have to wait N units of time" approach is: what do we do instead meanwhile? What's the alternative?
    - sharken 5y ago
      That's the hard part, I'm all for giving the vaccine to all who wants it. And at the same time not forcing everyone to take the vaccine. As an example Denmark will reach about 75% vaccinated without any mandates, though a Corona passport will be in effect until October 2021. That is one of the better ways of handling it in my opinion.
      - oblio 5y ago
        The thing is, I don't think there's any democratic country where there's an actual "vaccine mandate". Nobody there is forcing anyone to get vaccinated. It's done through "Corona passports". And on top of that, countries like Denmark have much higher levels of social trust than countries like the US.
        ghaff 5y ago
        While at least generally true, requiring to go into many workplaces (and therefore stay employed) and many other indoor locations is pretty close to a mandate if widely implemented. I'm not saying I disagree with doing this, but it gets close to forcing people in all but name.
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lern_too_spel 5y ago
No vaccine has ever had a long term effect that isn't visible soon after it is administered. Vaccines are one and done and eliminate quickly from the body, unlike other medications, which can be administered daily or weekly for years and can accumulate in organs. https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-what-are-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-... "This is particularly true of the mRNA vaccines. mRNA degrades incredibly rapidly. You wouldn't expect any of these vaccines to have any long-term side effects. And in fact, this has never occurred with any vaccine."
- valenterry 5y ago
  How about the cases of narcolepsy that were caused by the swine-flu vaccine Pandremix? As far as I understand it took around 2 years before it was officially stated that the vaccine was/is the cause for these cases. Until 2015 the numbers grew even higher because of the delay between vaccination and the first symptoms. I wouldn't really call that "soon after it is administered". And the same is also true for covid's long term effects. I'm still reading new articles/conclusions about those effects.
  - briffle 5y ago
    I have never heard of that, can you share a link? I would like to read more.
    - valenterry 5y ago
      Here's a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy
      - dbrueck 5y ago
        That link says "symptoms occurred one to two months after vaccination" or am I misreading it?

nojito 5y ago

>By that i mean that we need more time to assess the long-term effects, something that many pro-vaccine people seem unwilling to accept. That is unfortunate. We are way past the time frame for long-term effects to manifest themselves for a corona-like vaccine.

peakaboo 5y ago
This is not true. There could be birth defects or lower iq in babies born from vaccinated mothers.
- acdha 5y ago
  There are an infinite number of things which could happen but there’s no mechanism or evidence making this likely. The vaccine doesn’t rewrite your DNA and it strengthens your normal immune response, which does none of those things.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Pluuuuuusssss... we don't know the long term impact of Covid itself. People who argue against vaccines don't seem to think enough about that aspect.
    - Izkata 5y ago
      Or maybe they're just arguing for the third group: people who already were infected and recovered. No need to double up on the unknown risks of you already have immunity.
      - oblio 5y ago
        Based on our current information, that's at best 33% of the population. Realistically in most countries it's about 15-20%.
- wombatpm 5y ago
  Or in unvaccinated mothers exposed to COVID-19.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Birth defects would have been observed already if they were a side effect of the vaccine.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  Those could also be long term side effects of covid. A double digit percentage of people who catch the disease end up in the hospital soon after infection compared to fraction of a fraction of a percent of vaccine recipients in the time after they get the shot. Your priors have to be absolutely outrageous if based on the currently available data you think the risks are even within an order of magnitude.
  - xdennis 5y ago
    > Those could also be long term side effects of covid. Of course, but it's a lot worse when a cure causes issues. The point of medicine is to "first, do no harm".
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      It isn't that much worse when a cure causes issues. People endure terrible side effects from treatments to cure their cancer. Nearly every medicine I hear advertised has some risk of causing serious side effects, if not outright death
  - 34679 5y ago
    3.2 per 100,000 is not "a double digit percentage". https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628...
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      A 0.0032% hospitalization rate doesn't pass the smell test. That's hundreds of times less than the reported fatality rate!
      - 34679 5y ago
        Call Israel and tell them they got it wrong.
- cglace 5y ago
  I personally know 2 women who had covid, were hospitalized, had emergency c sections and then died. That is a known risk. Your risk is hypothetical.
sharken 5y ago
Do you have a credible source for that claim ?

auslegung 5y ago

I wonder would you have felt the same way when the chickenpox vaccine, or MMR vaccines, or any of the other common vaccines we get today, were new.

odessacubbage 5y ago
yes actually.
- auslegung 5y ago
  It's an impossible question for me to answer b/c I don't have any knowledge whatsoever of what was going on at the time. But I think the question is worth pondering for people because it may help people realize if they have politics clouding their thinking here. Not saying everyone with your opinion has their thinking clouded because of politics, but I think many do.

evan_ 5y ago

> we need more time to assess the long-term effects You seem to be saying that the only issue is a question of time. Be specific: how much time? Will you say a specific number? “I will accept an mRNA-based vaccine if it has been around, and proven safe, for x years.”

sharken 5y ago
Something similar to the Rubella vaccine that took about four years to be licensed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubella_vaccine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubella_vaccine
- oblio 5y ago
  My problem with this "we just have to wait N units of time" approach is: what do we do instead meanwhile? What's the alternative?
  - sharken 5y ago
    That's the hard part, I'm all for giving the vaccine to all who wants it. And at the same time not forcing everyone to take the vaccine. As an example Denmark will reach about 75% vaccinated without any mandates, though a Corona passport will be in effect until October 2021. That is one of the better ways of handling it in my opinion.
    - oblio 5y ago
      The thing is, I don't think there's any democratic country where there's an actual "vaccine mandate". Nobody there is forcing anyone to get vaccinated. It's done through "Corona passports". And on top of that, countries like Denmark have much higher levels of social trust than countries like the US.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        While at least generally true, requiring to go into many workplaces (and therefore stay employed) and many other indoor locations is pretty close to a mandate if widely implemented. I'm not saying I disagree with doing this, but it gets close to forcing people in all but name.

deleted 5y ago

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deleted 5y ago

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lern_too_spel 5y ago

No vaccine has ever had a long term effect that isn't visible soon after it is administered. Vaccines are one and done and eliminate quickly from the body, unlike other medications, which can be administered daily or weekly for years and can accumulate in organs. https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-what-are-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-... "This is particularly true of the mRNA vaccines. mRNA degrades incredibly rapidly. You wouldn't expect any of these vaccines to have any long-term side effects. And in fact, this has never occurred with any vaccine."

valenterry 5y ago
How about the cases of narcolepsy that were caused by the swine-flu vaccine Pandremix? As far as I understand it took around 2 years before it was officially stated that the vaccine was/is the cause for these cases. Until 2015 the numbers grew even higher because of the delay between vaccination and the first symptoms. I wouldn't really call that "soon after it is administered". And the same is also true for covid's long term effects. I'm still reading new articles/conclusions about those effects.
- briffle 5y ago
  I have never heard of that, can you share a link? I would like to read more.
  - valenterry 5y ago
    Here's a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy
    - dbrueck 5y ago
      That link says "symptoms occurred one to two months after vaccination" or am I misreading it?