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How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? The transmission chain must be very long. I'd appreciate any li

How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? The transmission chain must be very long. I'd appreciate any links or resources to read more. Perhaps we can learn to be more mindful of our interactions with other animals, wear masks in public spaces or public transport, and hopefully WFH becomes a permanent option. It seems that I stepped on many nerves, please, feel free to disagree or argue.

dahfizz 5y ago
> How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? I've been within a few feet of wild deer plenty of times in my life. Humans have a lot more interaction with wild animals than you would think once you move outside of urban areas.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  There's literally a market in Brian Head Utah where a bull moose hangs out on the front porch most of the day. I'm sure there are plenty of "wild" animals with petting-zoo-like relationships with random people. This can't be the only one.
  - erhk 5y ago
    That sounds like an exciting video once it gets realized
mr_overalls 5y ago
> how does covid transmit It seems likely that they were drinking sewage-contaminated water. Ingestion of contaminated water is the source of a staggering variety of illnesses for both humans and animals. Souce: I work in environmental monitoring.
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  Which towns in Canada are dumping untreated sewage into the water? As far as I'm aware every province has an environmental ministry that doesn't grant exemptions from sewage treatment. So if it's still ongoing...
  - eloff 5y ago
    I don't think that's perfectly done. I was hiking on the North Shore in Vancouver and there's a sign over a stream warning about untreated sewage. If it's a problem in the one of the biggest and wealthiest cities, I can easily see it being an issue in smaller towns. In very rural areas, especially on reservations, I believe water and sewage treatment is an ongoing issue.
  - steve_adams_86 5y ago
    In my city we JUST started treating our sewage: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-sewage-plant-1.5867582 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-sew...
    - MichaelZuo 5y ago
      Thanks for the info, that is genuinely surprising. And Victoria is not some poor town either. I guess there wasn't much incentive to improve given the consequences of inaction were dumped literally on someone else's doorstep.
  - voxic11 5y ago
    https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/many-cities-still-dump-raw-sewage/ https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/many-cities-still-dump-r... That's from 2009 but it seems unlikely to have been completely resolved since then given the scale of the issue (200 billion litres a year).
  - alex_c 5y ago
    Most towns do, occasionally - overflows happen. Article is from 2018 but I assume nothing has radically changed since then. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ont-enviro-report-1.4903327 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ont-enviro-report-1.4...
Miner49er 5y ago
People interact with deer all the time. They are all over neighborhoods in certain areas, people hunt them, they often are hit by vehicles, etc.
q1w2 5y ago
You are assuming that it was humans that infected the deer, while it could have easily been another wild animal. Wild animals are not commonly tested for covid-19, but those that have been have seen widespread infection. ...which means most populations of mammals and possibly birds are infected as well. ...so the deer could have caught it from any number of other animals in the wild - or more likely, from their droppings.
N1H1L 5y ago
It could be simply from a human being to their dog, who chases a deer and passes it on.
tootie 5y ago
Per CDC, "three out of every four new infectious diseases come from animals" https://gothamist.com/news/germs-spill-from-animals-to-humans-all-the-timeeven-in-new-york https://gothamist.com/news/germs-spill-from-animals-to-human... Think about it like online ads. Even though you've never clicked on one and don't know anyone who clicks on them, the market is worth hundreds of billions. There are so many novel pathogens floating around the world that if humans are exposed to 0.01% of them we'll still see regular epidemics and occasional pandemics.
rossdavidh 5y ago
As to "how does covid transmit to wild animals...", I think it is an excellent question, but I don't think we have a definitive answer. Clearly there is something about the transmission we don't understand (which suggests why current measures to halt the spread such as lockdowns, masks, etc. don't seem to work well). As for the "stepped on many nerves", I think your comment was interpreted as meaning "we should stay at home and wear masks forever", whereas the general patience for such measures is wearing thin. My guess is that part of the reason for a rising rate of violent crime in the U.S. in the last twelve months is simply more people with rising frustration, such that they are more willing to resort to violence. By the way it appears that white-tailed deer in the US have now also been found to have antibodies likely indicating covid-19 exposure: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454326v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454326v1....
- PartiallyTyped 5y ago
  The replies I received are mostly insufficient or very handwavey. Interactions with humans transmitting the Delta variant, in very extreme (NB shortest) cases need upwards of 50-60 seconds, where common transmissions need longer. Which suggests that people need quite long 1-1 interactions with multiple animals to spread it, which to me appears very unlikely. This belief is based on research that supported that covid was unlikely to happen until the first super-spreader event in the wet market. Furthermore, given the symptoms observed in humans, if we are to assume similar symptoms in the wild animals, then odds are these animals become easy(er) pray, which reduces odds of mass transmission. Finally, even if wild animals spend a lot of time in 'close proximity', they are constantly out-doors and in much larger distance than humans sitting in public transport, which suggests there are super-spreader "events" or viral-sources that dump virus particles on wild animals and allow the virus to enter the population. So I do agree that there may be something we are overlooking, perhaps related to waste-water, but this is why I am asking. Even if it doesn't matter anymore wrt covid, it matters for the future. As for the people that misinterpret the noun 'option' accompanied with the adjective 'permanent', they need to understand that the ability for those willing to WFH, will help deal with covid, reduce road congestion, gas emissions, time wasted in commute, and ease measurements. I am not advocating for permanent lockdowns or anything alike. But it is common knowledge that flu infections have reduced significantly, and masks can help deal with smog in cities, as is done in cities in Asia.
jandrese 5y ago
It would only take a handful of transmissions to a community to have something like COVID spread like wildfire through the deer population. They may not interact with humans much, but only one carrier could infect several others and then that cascades to the entire population. Deer don't get vaccinated and don't wear masks. The good news is that even if COVID is running rampant through the deer populations they shouldn't pass them on to humans very often, so if humans are good at identifying and stopping isolated outbreaks then we can live with the risk.
- nomel 5y ago
  > but only one carrier could infect several others and then that cascades to the entire population Which is exactly how we got here.

dahfizz 5y ago

> How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? I've been within a few feet of wild deer plenty of times in my life. Humans have a lot more interaction with wild animals than you would think once you move outside of urban areas.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
There's literally a market in Brian Head Utah where a bull moose hangs out on the front porch most of the day. I'm sure there are plenty of "wild" animals with petting-zoo-like relationships with random people. This can't be the only one.
- erhk 5y ago
  That sounds like an exciting video once it gets realized

mr_overalls 5y ago

> how does covid transmit It seems likely that they were drinking sewage-contaminated water. Ingestion of contaminated water is the source of a staggering variety of illnesses for both humans and animals. Souce: I work in environmental monitoring.

MichaelZuo 5y ago
Which towns in Canada are dumping untreated sewage into the water? As far as I'm aware every province has an environmental ministry that doesn't grant exemptions from sewage treatment. So if it's still ongoing...
- eloff 5y ago
  I don't think that's perfectly done. I was hiking on the North Shore in Vancouver and there's a sign over a stream warning about untreated sewage. If it's a problem in the one of the biggest and wealthiest cities, I can easily see it being an issue in smaller towns. In very rural areas, especially on reservations, I believe water and sewage treatment is an ongoing issue.
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  In my city we JUST started treating our sewage: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-sewage-plant-1.5867582 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-sew...
  - MichaelZuo 5y ago
    Thanks for the info, that is genuinely surprising. And Victoria is not some poor town either. I guess there wasn't much incentive to improve given the consequences of inaction were dumped literally on someone else's doorstep.
- voxic11 5y ago
  https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/many-cities-still-dump-raw-sewage/ https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/many-cities-still-dump-r... That's from 2009 but it seems unlikely to have been completely resolved since then given the scale of the issue (200 billion litres a year).
- alex_c 5y ago
  Most towns do, occasionally - overflows happen. Article is from 2018 but I assume nothing has radically changed since then. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ont-enviro-report-1.4903327 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ont-enviro-report-1.4...

Miner49er 5y ago

People interact with deer all the time. They are all over neighborhoods in certain areas, people hunt them, they often are hit by vehicles, etc.

q1w2 5y ago

You are assuming that it was humans that infected the deer, while it could have easily been another wild animal. Wild animals are not commonly tested for covid-19, but those that have been have seen widespread infection. ...which means most populations of mammals and possibly birds are infected as well. ...so the deer could have caught it from any number of other animals in the wild - or more likely, from their droppings.

N1H1L 5y ago

It could be simply from a human being to their dog, who chases a deer and passes it on.

tootie 5y ago

Per CDC, "three out of every four new infectious diseases come from animals" https://gothamist.com/news/germs-spill-from-animals-to-humans-all-the-timeeven-in-new-york https://gothamist.com/news/germs-spill-from-animals-to-human... Think about it like online ads. Even though you've never clicked on one and don't know anyone who clicks on them, the market is worth hundreds of billions. There are so many novel pathogens floating around the world that if humans are exposed to 0.01% of them we'll still see regular epidemics and occasional pandemics.

rossdavidh 5y ago

As to "how does covid transmit to wild animals...", I think it is an excellent question, but I don't think we have a definitive answer. Clearly there is something about the transmission we don't understand (which suggests why current measures to halt the spread such as lockdowns, masks, etc. don't seem to work well). As for the "stepped on many nerves", I think your comment was interpreted as meaning "we should stay at home and wear masks forever", whereas the general patience for such measures is wearing thin. My guess is that part of the reason for a rising rate of violent crime in the U.S. in the last twelve months is simply more people with rising frustration, such that they are more willing to resort to violence. By the way it appears that white-tailed deer in the US have now also been found to have antibodies likely indicating covid-19 exposure: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454326v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454326v1....

PartiallyTyped 5y ago
The replies I received are mostly insufficient or very handwavey. Interactions with humans transmitting the Delta variant, in very extreme (NB shortest) cases need upwards of 50-60 seconds, where common transmissions need longer. Which suggests that people need quite long 1-1 interactions with multiple animals to spread it, which to me appears very unlikely. This belief is based on research that supported that covid was unlikely to happen until the first super-spreader event in the wet market. Furthermore, given the symptoms observed in humans, if we are to assume similar symptoms in the wild animals, then odds are these animals become easy(er) pray, which reduces odds of mass transmission. Finally, even if wild animals spend a lot of time in 'close proximity', they are constantly out-doors and in much larger distance than humans sitting in public transport, which suggests there are super-spreader "events" or viral-sources that dump virus particles on wild animals and allow the virus to enter the population. So I do agree that there may be something we are overlooking, perhaps related to waste-water, but this is why I am asking. Even if it doesn't matter anymore wrt covid, it matters for the future. As for the people that misinterpret the noun 'option' accompanied with the adjective 'permanent', they need to understand that the ability for those willing to WFH, will help deal with covid, reduce road congestion, gas emissions, time wasted in commute, and ease measurements. I am not advocating for permanent lockdowns or anything alike. But it is common knowledge that flu infections have reduced significantly, and masks can help deal with smog in cities, as is done in cities in Asia.

jandrese 5y ago

It would only take a handful of transmissions to a community to have something like COVID spread like wildfire through the deer population. They may not interact with humans much, but only one carrier could infect several others and then that cascades to the entire population. Deer don't get vaccinated and don't wear masks. The good news is that even if COVID is running rampant through the deer populations they shouldn't pass them on to humans very often, so if humans are good at identifying and stopping isolated outbreaks then we can live with the risk.

nomel 5y ago
> but only one carrier could infect several others and then that cascades to the entire population Which is exactly how we got here.