4 ms·

Maybe "mask requirements" are a sign of society advancing? There was a time in human history when we didn't bathe regularly, or brush our teeth, or have sewage

Maybe "mask requirements" are a sign of society advancing? There was a time in human history when we didn't bathe regularly, or brush our teeth, or have sewage removal systems in cities, etc. Maybe the next step is "you know, breathing in particles that came from the other 600 people in this railcar is not so great". I certainly don't see a reason to go maskless on public transportation in the future. And, as supply chain problems work themselves out, someone will probably make masks that actually filter out virus-size particles and fit more people's faces. (I feel like every mask I've bought so far during the pandemic has either been completely ineffective, or has been designed to fit someone that is 1/3 my size.)

josephcsible 5y ago
You're saying society should keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious.
- geofft 5y ago
  Is there a particular reason you think that people shouldn't keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever, or is it just that it hurts your feelings? Barely a century ago, it wasn't common for doctors to wash their hands, because it hurt doctors' feelings. Dr. Charles Meigs, an obstetrician, said, "Doctors are gentlemen and a gentleman's hands are clean." But, of course, factually they weren't clean, factually they were full of germs, and factually Dr. Meigs was killing several of the people he operated on through his unclean hands. There was factual data that infant mortality dropped significantly in clinics where doctors were washing their hands. But the response to hand-washing was much like yours. "You're saying society should keep washing hands everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious." And in fact they sent the doctor who suggested hand-washing to an insane asylum, where he died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Doctors washing their hands saves way more lives than masks do, and hand washing doesn't have negative side effects like masks do (e.g., constantly fogging up glasses, and keeping people who are hard of hearing from reading lips).
  - dudul 5y ago
    It is very important for young children to be able to see one's entire face. Facial expressions such as smiles help them understand context when communicating.
    - robhunter 5y ago
      Who in the world is downvoting a statement like this?
      - jrockway 5y ago
        I think you should pretty much ignore voting in contentious political threads. People have it in their heads that the "side" with the most upvotes "wins", so people are reading comments to determine sides and then to vote appropriately. All I can say is that people are going to be super upset when they go to cash in their HN karma and find that it isn't honored as legal tender ;)
        dudul 5y ago
        I'm just happy HN is such a fringe community not representative of the general population. It's pretty sad when you reach a point where you make medical decisions to "own" the "other team".
  - joshuamarksmith 5y ago
    Your example is incorrect, actually. This scenario [1] is a specific instance of using chlorinated lime to clean your hands after dealing with cadavers, which is a totally different scenario. In fact, he apparently references this as an alternative to "normal hand washing". The mid-19th century is not the middle ages, we knew about washing hands. > Semmelweis's key claim was that physicians contaminated their hands with "cadaveric particles" in the morgue while conducting autopsies. He pointed out that ordinary washings with soap did not remove these particles, because the hands could retain a stench for several days in spite of such washings. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
- s5300 5y ago
  Ahh, I too remember when escalators instead of stairs were seen as so insane that the public couldn't tell whether the mall owners were serious...
  - sintaxi 5y ago
    Interesting. Were you required to strap an escalator to your face?
- evnc 5y ago
  Is it insane that everyone should keep wearing clothes everywhere literally forever? If I found being nude to be significantly more comfortable/freeing than being clothed, I would still be expected to wear clothing in public spaces for both politeness and sanitary (e.g. sitting on subway seats) reasons.
  - yerwhat01010 5y ago
    Well by that logic, why stop at masks? Let's make everyone wear rubber gloves whenever they leave the house. Let's legally mandate that everyone carry antibacterial handgel on them at all times and wash their hands after touching any surface. Let's ban handshaking - hell, why don't we just permanently ban everybody from ever leaving their homes? That'll be sure to stop the spread of respiratory viruses and thus totally worth it, amirite? And why stop at respiratory viruses? Sexual infections cause all kinds of harm too - the obvious response is to ban sex. When people want to reproduce they can just use IVF - thank God we live in the modern era. And by the way, do you have any idea how many people are killed every year in road accidents? I propose we ban cars. Let's also ban walking in case anybody trips over. And let's ban eating so that no-one ever chokes on their food. Am I doing this right?
- jrockway 5y ago
  Yeah. I basically agree with the article: > The experience may also prompt people to take all respiratory viruses more seriously, leading to lasting changes in mask wearing and ventilation. I don't think that mask mandates will continue, but I do think that many more people will choose to wear masks in situations that warrant them. In Asia, it was already pretty common before COVID-19 and even before SARS. Walk around Tokyo on any given day and you'll see people wearing masks (mostly to protect others). I think the West now has some idea why that might be a good thing. The world has irreversibly changed. There is no getting around that.
dont__panic 5y ago
Curious what kind of design workarounds we'll see for really hot and/or humid regions -- where I live, it's pretty comfortable to wear a mask 90% of the time. But where my parents live, it's a very different story: hot, humidity 90%+ a lot of the time, often rainy, few places have A/C. Wearing a mask is a lot less pleasant there and I suspect that's part of why mask mandates have seen resistance there.

josephcsible 5y ago

You're saying society should keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious.

geofft 5y ago
Is there a particular reason you think that people shouldn't keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever, or is it just that it hurts your feelings? Barely a century ago, it wasn't common for doctors to wash their hands, because it hurt doctors' feelings. Dr. Charles Meigs, an obstetrician, said, "Doctors are gentlemen and a gentleman's hands are clean." But, of course, factually they weren't clean, factually they were full of germs, and factually Dr. Meigs was killing several of the people he operated on through his unclean hands. There was factual data that infant mortality dropped significantly in clinics where doctors were washing their hands. But the response to hand-washing was much like yours. "You're saying society should keep washing hands everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious." And in fact they sent the doctor who suggested hand-washing to an insane asylum, where he died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Doctors washing their hands saves way more lives than masks do, and hand washing doesn't have negative side effects like masks do (e.g., constantly fogging up glasses, and keeping people who are hard of hearing from reading lips).
- dudul 5y ago
  It is very important for young children to be able to see one's entire face. Facial expressions such as smiles help them understand context when communicating.
  - robhunter 5y ago
    Who in the world is downvoting a statement like this?
    - jrockway 5y ago
      I think you should pretty much ignore voting in contentious political threads. People have it in their heads that the "side" with the most upvotes "wins", so people are reading comments to determine sides and then to vote appropriately. All I can say is that people are going to be super upset when they go to cash in their HN karma and find that it isn't honored as legal tender ;)
      - dudul 5y ago
        I'm just happy HN is such a fringe community not representative of the general population. It's pretty sad when you reach a point where you make medical decisions to "own" the "other team".
- joshuamarksmith 5y ago
  Your example is incorrect, actually. This scenario [1] is a specific instance of using chlorinated lime to clean your hands after dealing with cadavers, which is a totally different scenario. In fact, he apparently references this as an alternative to "normal hand washing". The mid-19th century is not the middle ages, we knew about washing hands. > Semmelweis's key claim was that physicians contaminated their hands with "cadaveric particles" in the morgue while conducting autopsies. He pointed out that ordinary washings with soap did not remove these particles, because the hands could retain a stench for several days in spite of such washings. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
s5300 5y ago
Ahh, I too remember when escalators instead of stairs were seen as so insane that the public couldn't tell whether the mall owners were serious...
- sintaxi 5y ago
  Interesting. Were you required to strap an escalator to your face?
evnc 5y ago
Is it insane that everyone should keep wearing clothes everywhere literally forever? If I found being nude to be significantly more comfortable/freeing than being clothed, I would still be expected to wear clothing in public spaces for both politeness and sanitary (e.g. sitting on subway seats) reasons.
- yerwhat01010 5y ago
  Well by that logic, why stop at masks? Let's make everyone wear rubber gloves whenever they leave the house. Let's legally mandate that everyone carry antibacterial handgel on them at all times and wash their hands after touching any surface. Let's ban handshaking - hell, why don't we just permanently ban everybody from ever leaving their homes? That'll be sure to stop the spread of respiratory viruses and thus totally worth it, amirite? And why stop at respiratory viruses? Sexual infections cause all kinds of harm too - the obvious response is to ban sex. When people want to reproduce they can just use IVF - thank God we live in the modern era. And by the way, do you have any idea how many people are killed every year in road accidents? I propose we ban cars. Let's also ban walking in case anybody trips over. And let's ban eating so that no-one ever chokes on their food. Am I doing this right?
jrockway 5y ago
Yeah. I basically agree with the article: > The experience may also prompt people to take all respiratory viruses more seriously, leading to lasting changes in mask wearing and ventilation. I don't think that mask mandates will continue, but I do think that many more people will choose to wear masks in situations that warrant them. In Asia, it was already pretty common before COVID-19 and even before SARS. Walk around Tokyo on any given day and you'll see people wearing masks (mostly to protect others). I think the West now has some idea why that might be a good thing. The world has irreversibly changed. There is no getting around that.

dont__panic 5y ago

Curious what kind of design workarounds we'll see for really hot and/or humid regions -- where I live, it's pretty comfortable to wear a mask 90% of the time. But where my parents live, it's a very different story: hot, humidity 90%+ a lot of the time, often rainy, few places have A/C. Wearing a mask is a lot less pleasant there and I suspect that's part of why mask mandates have seen resistance there.