4 ms·

Though coronavirus is very different in many respects, it's worthwhile (especially if you are older like me) to remember the history of AIDS. We've learned to l

Though coronavirus is very different in many respects, it's worthwhile (especially if you are older like me) to remember the history of AIDS. We've learned to live with it and limit its spread very effectively in the western world.

js8 5y ago
Yeah, we learned to limit its spread, but with "masks" (condoms).
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Condoms have a 99.9% effectiveness. Studies have shown that face mask policies have around a 1% effectiveness.
  - smallerfish 5y ago
    What studies?
    - Expirat 5y ago
      Do you need a study to understand that a latex condom can catch infected seminal fluids while a cloth mask cannot stop the spread of droplets, or aerosols containing covid?
      - valeness 5y ago
        yes
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - erhk 5y ago
        A cloth mask does reduce the spread of aerlsols as well as droplets. Anything telling you otherwise is false and i will happily bury you in a dozen backing studies.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        It's clear masks stop droplets. That's not in question. It's clear masks work for healthcare workers who are trained in their use. But is wearing a filthy rag until the waiter brings the breadsticks an effective community mask policy?
        Expirat 5y ago
        No it doesn't. The last year and a half is proof that masks played no significant role in reduction of infections. Bringing all kinds of studies doesn't prove anything since we effectively had the chance to witnesss the biggest study of all. Sure, it might stop some droplets. But a mask can never be as effective as a condom in stopping the virus. It s common sense. You can still infect or get infected. And that s the issue.
  - gruez 5y ago
    That's comparing apples and oranges because you're comparing the effectiveness of a particular treatment (condoms) with the effectiveness of a particular policy (mask mandates).
  - joshuaissac 5y ago
    According to this study by the University of Cambridge, FFP3 masks provided "31-100% protection (and most likely 100%)": https://www.authorea.com/users/421653/articles/527590-ffp3-respirators-protect-healthcare-workers-against-infection-with-sars-cov-2?commit=e567e67501cd6ee0dd1a6e8e4acdf2c4fd70e0ec https://www.authorea.com/users/421653/articles/527590-ffp3-r... (preprint).
    - nickthemagicman 5y ago
      Face mask policies on a community level. Not with trained healthcare workers.
- postalrat 5y ago
  Not sure you can call it limiting the spread. We slow the spread. Which potentially prevents overrunning our hospital. It seems like eventually everyone is going to get it. Slowing the spread also deepens the chain of infections and may lead to more mutation.
Bostonian 5y ago
AIDS never spread broadly among heterosexuals who did not share needles or have partners who are bisexual or shared needles. Everyone is at risk for covid, like the flu.
- evgen 5y ago
  Spoken like someone whose knowledge of the world ends at the US border. Hate to be the bearer of unpleasant news, but there are parts of the world where HIV was mostly a heterosexual disease. The nature of the main infected population depended upon how HIV was first introduced a country and what cultural behaviors helped or hindered its spread.
  - NoPie 5y ago
    Even in Eastern Europe currently most HIV transmissions happen with heterosexuals. I was surprised to learn that in the Western countries it is mostly spread by MSM (men having sex with men) and IDU (intravenous drug use).
- cmsefton 5y ago
  This certainly was not the experience of other countries such as South Africa where the majority of transfer (roughly 80%) was via heterosexual transfer.
  - joshuaissac 5y ago
    Reference: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8420583/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8420583/
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    I'll do a PSA here for younger people since I've followed AIDS since the beginning of news reports in the 1980s: - In Africa, men using hookers is a common status thing. So heterosexual men get it from hookers and take it home to their wives. - If you look at the links in this thread, you can see that black Americans are around 5x more likely to get HIV than other US groups. Mostly this is an aversion to condoms for several cultural reasons. - This may sound surprising to men who are well-read, but American women (and others) often don't use or demand condoms. You'd be amazed at how little they're actually used. I expect an epidemic of infertility and STDs as women's partner count for all groups climbs above 100 each (thanks, Tindr.) If you're in the US and need larger condoms, most chains carry the brand-name "Magnum." The California Family court is awarding $2,000+/month to baby mamas from engineers, so wrap it up, guys.
smallerfish 5y ago
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-and-new-cases-of-hiv?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-and-new-cases-of-h... HIV deaths were 348k in 1990 (which is the earliest year I found stats for on a quick googling). Around 4m people died from covid over the past year. We definitely would not want covid's mortality trajectory to follow HIV's, which peaked at 1.95 million, a 5.5x multiple of 1990's figure.

js8 5y ago

Yeah, we learned to limit its spread, but with "masks" (condoms).

nickthemagicman 5y ago
Condoms have a 99.9% effectiveness. Studies have shown that face mask policies have around a 1% effectiveness.
- smallerfish 5y ago
  What studies?
  - Expirat 5y ago
    Do you need a study to understand that a latex condom can catch infected seminal fluids while a cloth mask cannot stop the spread of droplets, or aerosols containing covid?
    - valeness 5y ago
      yes
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - erhk 5y ago
      A cloth mask does reduce the spread of aerlsols as well as droplets. Anything telling you otherwise is false and i will happily bury you in a dozen backing studies.
      - nickthemagicman 5y ago
        It's clear masks stop droplets. That's not in question. It's clear masks work for healthcare workers who are trained in their use. But is wearing a filthy rag until the waiter brings the breadsticks an effective community mask policy?
      - Expirat 5y ago
        No it doesn't. The last year and a half is proof that masks played no significant role in reduction of infections. Bringing all kinds of studies doesn't prove anything since we effectively had the chance to witnesss the biggest study of all. Sure, it might stop some droplets. But a mask can never be as effective as a condom in stopping the virus. It s common sense. You can still infect or get infected. And that s the issue.
- gruez 5y ago
  That's comparing apples and oranges because you're comparing the effectiveness of a particular treatment (condoms) with the effectiveness of a particular policy (mask mandates).
- joshuaissac 5y ago
  According to this study by the University of Cambridge, FFP3 masks provided "31-100% protection (and most likely 100%)": https://www.authorea.com/users/421653/articles/527590-ffp3-respirators-protect-healthcare-workers-against-infection-with-sars-cov-2?commit=e567e67501cd6ee0dd1a6e8e4acdf2c4fd70e0ec https://www.authorea.com/users/421653/articles/527590-ffp3-r... (preprint).
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Face mask policies on a community level. Not with trained healthcare workers.
postalrat 5y ago
Not sure you can call it limiting the spread. We slow the spread. Which potentially prevents overrunning our hospital. It seems like eventually everyone is going to get it. Slowing the spread also deepens the chain of infections and may lead to more mutation.

Bostonian 5y ago

AIDS never spread broadly among heterosexuals who did not share needles or have partners who are bisexual or shared needles. Everyone is at risk for covid, like the flu.

evgen 5y ago
Spoken like someone whose knowledge of the world ends at the US border. Hate to be the bearer of unpleasant news, but there are parts of the world where HIV was mostly a heterosexual disease. The nature of the main infected population depended upon how HIV was first introduced a country and what cultural behaviors helped or hindered its spread.
- NoPie 5y ago
  Even in Eastern Europe currently most HIV transmissions happen with heterosexuals. I was surprised to learn that in the Western countries it is mostly spread by MSM (men having sex with men) and IDU (intravenous drug use).
cmsefton 5y ago
This certainly was not the experience of other countries such as South Africa where the majority of transfer (roughly 80%) was via heterosexual transfer.
- joshuaissac 5y ago
  Reference: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8420583/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8420583/
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  I'll do a PSA here for younger people since I've followed AIDS since the beginning of news reports in the 1980s: - In Africa, men using hookers is a common status thing. So heterosexual men get it from hookers and take it home to their wives. - If you look at the links in this thread, you can see that black Americans are around 5x more likely to get HIV than other US groups. Mostly this is an aversion to condoms for several cultural reasons. - This may sound surprising to men who are well-read, but American women (and others) often don't use or demand condoms. You'd be amazed at how little they're actually used. I expect an epidemic of infertility and STDs as women's partner count for all groups climbs above 100 each (thanks, Tindr.) If you're in the US and need larger condoms, most chains carry the brand-name "Magnum." The California Family court is awarding $2,000+/month to baby mamas from engineers, so wrap it up, guys.

smallerfish 5y ago

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-and-new-cases-of-hiv?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-and-new-cases-of-h... HIV deaths were 348k in 1990 (which is the earliest year I found stats for on a quick googling). Around 4m people died from covid over the past year. We definitely would not want covid's mortality trajectory to follow HIV's, which peaked at 1.95 million, a 5.5x multiple of 1990's figure.