5 ms·

Don't complete ebikes cost as much as used cars?

jdboyd 5y ago
An Ancheer ebike from Amazon cost around $1k, and while possible, it would be hard to get a car for that price. It seems pretty well made for the price, but it doesn't include the best quality shifters. I can set the saddle high enough for my 6'5" self, but I do want the handle bars raised as well. I suspect that for people 6' and under, it would be fine as is.
acomjean 5y ago
I bought a decent e-bike for $1800. It’s got good components (shimano) and disc brakes. I’ve put about 2000 miles on it so far and use the pedal assist 30% of the time, turn it off to get more of a workout when riding home. You can get cheaper and way more expensive but I think this is the sweet spot. (For comparison My non ebike is a hybrid commuter which was about 600)
dmix 5y ago
Not if you factor in insurance (especially for young males) and budget ebikes start at $1000 and even at entry level they are still very capable. Plus car repairs and gas. Besides people always get suckered into getting way nicer/newer cars than they really need (myself included). Financing is a difficult thing to keep at the low end. So in practice it’s not really comparable. But cars obviously have plenty of other benefits.
masklinn 5y ago
High-end complete ebikes cost as much as a car. So do high-end non-e bikes.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
There is a hugh market for a reasonably powerful ebike. The ones I like are $2000 to $12,000. I'm waiting for a Henry Ford type of guy to bring those costs down. I guess the lithium batteries are a big factor in costs? In the mean time, I'm sticking with my old Zapp bikes. I need a battery though.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  When someone does come along and create an e-bike that's fast and comfortable enough to coexist with cars on every road short of a limited access highway it will instantly be regulated into oblivion with a bunch of hand wringing about road safety. See mopeds for an example. As soon as they got both good and cheap they got regulated to the point where a crappy car has a better value proposition. You can already see a litany of comments expressing support for regulating ebikes so they remain a novelty niche in this very thread.
  - bambax 5y ago
    In trafic a moped is better than a car, and an ebike better than a moped, regardless of regulations. If they impose a full helmet for ebikes I will hate it, but still choose that over a car.
  - analog31 5y ago
    In my locale, mopeds / scooters had a very narrow niche, among college students and some employees, because they could be parked for free. You didn't want to be driving through the campus in between classes because of the scooter traffic. When the university started restricting and charging for scooter parking, the scooters vanished. At the same time I've seen practically no e-bikes in the racks on campus. Most student housing has no indoor bike storage, and they're hard to carry up stairs so it's a problem to find a way to charge them. On the other hand, as I've told my kids, "you were born with feet, you can pedal a bike." Conventional bikes have returned to their proper place at the top of the student transportation food chain.
- gruturo 5y ago
  I'm really baffled at (e-)bike prices remaining so high. There's certainly not more research than what goes into cars, admittedly amortized over smaller production runs, and battery packs should (should, but don't) cost very little (at 100$/KWh, my bike's pack should be a whopping 43 bucks, let's say 100 if we include the frame mount, the lock, the wiring and the charger). There is SO LITTLE material overall in a bike, with 99% of the tech having changed little since the '70s, so I guess it's not patents or IP either. It's not the wheels, I can buy replacements for little. It's not the shifting system, a crappy one is 100 EUR and a decent (low-end) Shimano is under 200. It's not the chain, those are 10 bucks, maybe 25 for the higher strength ones appropriate for an e-bike. It's not the motor, as I can get a conversion kit off ebay for 150-200, which includes a wheel and electronics. Yet, 25kg of ebike costs 12% of 1000kg of a low end city car, while using 40 times less material and not having to undergo all the same rigorous testing, homologation and what else. What am I missing? Is it all in the frame? Is it all profit? Am I looking at this from a completely wrong perspective ?
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Depends on what kind of used car you're thinking of. (I'm being anal; it's a weird analogy given you can probably get a used car for <$100) Anyway, the cost of ebikes has gone down a lot over the years, especially as more and more competition shows up and production of various parts (batteries, motors, control units) has scaled up. I just had a quick boggle, ebikes start at around €1200 at the moment (cheaper too, but those are folding bikes).
theshrike79 5y ago
You can buy a shitty car for the price of a decent e-bike. The e-bike has maintenance costs close to 0. Cars need insurance and fuel at the very minimum.
- bambax 5y ago
  > The e-bike has maintenance costs close to 0. Not perfectly true. You have to renew brake pads, tires, chain and cassette at regular intervals if you ride a lot. They cost way way less than car maintenance though.
bovine3dom 5y ago
In France they start at about €800, or €500 when they're on offer. Depending where you live, how much paperwork you can cope with and how much you earn, the government will give you up to 50% of the purchase price back. Most of the cost of a used car comes after you purchase it, though : )
- bjarneh 5y ago
  > Most of the cost of a used car comes after you purchase it, though : ) Very true! French cars are certainly no exception to that rule :-)
- bambax 5y ago
  > how much paperwork you can cope with This. I gave up after reading the list of documents I would have to produce.
  - bovine3dom 5y ago
    Vive la paperasse ;) It varies by metropole. Here in Nice it seems straightforward.
Piskvorrr 5y ago
Possibly. Sky's the limit, as usual...and there are some dirt-cheap _very_ used cars available, so that's not a very useful comparison.
- acomjean 5y ago
  I'm reminded that my college roommate traded his unworking truck for a case of good beer. He got the better part of that deal. (You have to put a price down on the title when you sell. In this case it was technically $1...)

An Ancheer ebike from Amazon cost around $1k, and while possible, it would be hard to get a car for that price. It seems pretty well made for the price, but it doesn't include the best quality shifters. I can set the saddle high enough for my 6'5" self, but I do want the handle bars raised as well. I suspect that for people 6' and under, it would be fine as is.

acomjean 5y ago

I bought a decent e-bike for $1800. It’s got good components (shimano) and disc brakes. I’ve put about 2000 miles on it so far and use the pedal assist 30% of the time, turn it off to get more of a workout when riding home. You can get cheaper and way more expensive but I think this is the sweet spot. (For comparison My non ebike is a hybrid commuter which was about 600)

dmix 5y ago

Not if you factor in insurance (especially for young males) and budget ebikes start at $1000 and even at entry level they are still very capable. Plus car repairs and gas. Besides people always get suckered into getting way nicer/newer cars than they really need (myself included). Financing is a difficult thing to keep at the low end. So in practice it’s not really comparable. But cars obviously have plenty of other benefits.

masklinn 5y ago

High-end complete ebikes cost as much as a car. So do high-end non-e bikes.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

There is a hugh market for a reasonably powerful ebike. The ones I like are $2000 to $12,000. I'm waiting for a Henry Ford type of guy to bring those costs down. I guess the lithium batteries are a big factor in costs? In the mean time, I'm sticking with my old Zapp bikes. I need a battery though.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
When someone does come along and create an e-bike that's fast and comfortable enough to coexist with cars on every road short of a limited access highway it will instantly be regulated into oblivion with a bunch of hand wringing about road safety. See mopeds for an example. As soon as they got both good and cheap they got regulated to the point where a crappy car has a better value proposition. You can already see a litany of comments expressing support for regulating ebikes so they remain a novelty niche in this very thread.
- bambax 5y ago
  In trafic a moped is better than a car, and an ebike better than a moped, regardless of regulations. If they impose a full helmet for ebikes I will hate it, but still choose that over a car.
- analog31 5y ago
  In my locale, mopeds / scooters had a very narrow niche, among college students and some employees, because they could be parked for free. You didn't want to be driving through the campus in between classes because of the scooter traffic. When the university started restricting and charging for scooter parking, the scooters vanished. At the same time I've seen practically no e-bikes in the racks on campus. Most student housing has no indoor bike storage, and they're hard to carry up stairs so it's a problem to find a way to charge them. On the other hand, as I've told my kids, "you were born with feet, you can pedal a bike." Conventional bikes have returned to their proper place at the top of the student transportation food chain.
gruturo 5y ago
I'm really baffled at (e-)bike prices remaining so high. There's certainly not more research than what goes into cars, admittedly amortized over smaller production runs, and battery packs should (should, but don't) cost very little (at 100$/KWh, my bike's pack should be a whopping 43 bucks, let's say 100 if we include the frame mount, the lock, the wiring and the charger). There is SO LITTLE material overall in a bike, with 99% of the tech having changed little since the '70s, so I guess it's not patents or IP either. It's not the wheels, I can buy replacements for little. It's not the shifting system, a crappy one is 100 EUR and a decent (low-end) Shimano is under 200. It's not the chain, those are 10 bucks, maybe 25 for the higher strength ones appropriate for an e-bike. It's not the motor, as I can get a conversion kit off ebay for 150-200, which includes a wheel and electronics. Yet, 25kg of ebike costs 12% of 1000kg of a low end city car, while using 40 times less material and not having to undergo all the same rigorous testing, homologation and what else. What am I missing? Is it all in the frame? Is it all profit? Am I looking at this from a completely wrong perspective ?

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

Depends on what kind of used car you're thinking of. (I'm being anal; it's a weird analogy given you can probably get a used car for <$100) Anyway, the cost of ebikes has gone down a lot over the years, especially as more and more competition shows up and production of various parts (batteries, motors, control units) has scaled up. I just had a quick boggle, ebikes start at around €1200 at the moment (cheaper too, but those are folding bikes).

theshrike79 5y ago

You can buy a shitty car for the price of a decent e-bike. The e-bike has maintenance costs close to 0. Cars need insurance and fuel at the very minimum.

bambax 5y ago
> The e-bike has maintenance costs close to 0. Not perfectly true. You have to renew brake pads, tires, chain and cassette at regular intervals if you ride a lot. They cost way way less than car maintenance though.

bovine3dom 5y ago

In France they start at about €800, or €500 when they're on offer. Depending where you live, how much paperwork you can cope with and how much you earn, the government will give you up to 50% of the purchase price back. Most of the cost of a used car comes after you purchase it, though : )

bjarneh 5y ago
> Most of the cost of a used car comes after you purchase it, though : ) Very true! French cars are certainly no exception to that rule :-)
bambax 5y ago
> how much paperwork you can cope with This. I gave up after reading the list of documents I would have to produce.
- bovine3dom 5y ago
  Vive la paperasse ;) It varies by metropole. Here in Nice it seems straightforward.

Piskvorrr 5y ago

Possibly. Sky's the limit, as usual...and there are some dirt-cheap _very_ used cars available, so that's not a very useful comparison.

acomjean 5y ago
I'm reminded that my college roommate traded his unworking truck for a case of good beer. He got the better part of that deal. (You have to put a price down on the title when you sell. In this case it was technically $1...)