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There has been politically motivated academic censorship forever. See what happened to communist academics throughout the 20th century.

deleted 5y ago
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TeeMassive 5y ago
And?
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  The thesis of the top-most comment was: >>> And I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech That's the proposition that this particular subthread is discussing. Perhaps you don't care, but in that case I'm a bit confused about why you're commenting this far down-thread.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    I was answering to "Which people, and what speech?" Which I gave prominent examples of. The reply of which was simply examples from the USSR era (as opposed to right now in the Western World) without any other argument other than what seems to be whataboutism.
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      But that's a valid argument! "Here are tons of other examples from before the past decade" is a perfect response to "I've noticed this new thing in the past decade".
      - TeeMassive 5y ago
        Except I was responding to "Which people, and what speech?" which referred to current event and people.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        It doesn't though. The point of that statement is exactly what I said, to point out that "people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech" is only true if you look at specific people and specific speech. If you look at all speech about everything, it probably isn't true. Concretely, the far stronger social reaction to slurs against gay people go hand in hand with people now being able to say "I'm gay" without repercussions.
        TeeMassive 5y ago
        I was responding to: > > I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech. > Which people, and what speech? I responded with people and their speech that faced intolerance with total disregard for free speech. I doesn't even look like you are following the conversation anymore. > Concretely, the far stronger social reaction to slurs against gay people go hand in hand with people now being able to say "I'm gay" without repercussions. You are mixing up causation. People didn't accept homosexuality because certain words were banned, people stopped using words because they didn't like what they represented. And then it has gotten to another level where even statement of facts or simply making a point involving those words, in entirely different context causes outrage can cancellation. The idea that words should get banned to make certain ideas or concept disappear à la 1984 is a very immature notion as other words can be forged.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        > I was responding to: Yes, I'm perfectly aware. > I responded with people and their speech that faced intolerance with total disregard for free speech. I doesn't even look like you are following the conversation anymore. Yes, I'm fully aware of how you responded. My point is that "people facing intolerance with total disregard for free speech" is not a new thing, as evidenced by the examples given from earlier times. Breaking this down, you seem to think that giving examples of intolerance is enough to prove the initial claim, "people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech.", but it isn't. If someone else shows equal intolerance prior to the last 6-8 years, all your examples show is that the intolerance has not changed. You haven't shown that they've gotten worse, only that they haven't gotten better. > You are mixing up causation. You're once again misunderstanding my comment. I'm making the opposite causality argument than the one you appear to think I'm making. As acceptance of gay people goes up, acceptance of slurs against gay people goes down. The question is, then, did we have "freer" speech when people faced criticism for saying "I am gay" as they did in the past, as compared to now where you face criticism for calling someone a slur?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

deleted 5y ago

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TeeMassive 5y ago

And?

throwawaygh 5y ago
The thesis of the top-most comment was: >>> And I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech That's the proposition that this particular subthread is discussing. Perhaps you don't care, but in that case I'm a bit confused about why you're commenting this far down-thread.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  I was answering to "Which people, and what speech?" Which I gave prominent examples of. The reply of which was simply examples from the USSR era (as opposed to right now in the Western World) without any other argument other than what seems to be whataboutism.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    But that's a valid argument! "Here are tons of other examples from before the past decade" is a perfect response to "I've noticed this new thing in the past decade".
    - TeeMassive 5y ago
      Except I was responding to "Which people, and what speech?" which referred to current event and people.
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        It doesn't though. The point of that statement is exactly what I said, to point out that "people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech" is only true if you look at specific people and specific speech. If you look at all speech about everything, it probably isn't true. Concretely, the far stronger social reaction to slurs against gay people go hand in hand with people now being able to say "I'm gay" without repercussions.
        TeeMassive 5y ago
        I was responding to: > > I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech. > Which people, and what speech? I responded with people and their speech that faced intolerance with total disregard for free speech. I doesn't even look like you are following the conversation anymore. > Concretely, the far stronger social reaction to slurs against gay people go hand in hand with people now being able to say "I'm gay" without repercussions. You are mixing up causation. People didn't accept homosexuality because certain words were banned, people stopped using words because they didn't like what they represented. And then it has gotten to another level where even statement of facts or simply making a point involving those words, in entirely different context causes outrage can cancellation. The idea that words should get banned to make certain ideas or concept disappear à la 1984 is a very immature notion as other words can be forged.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        > I was responding to: Yes, I'm perfectly aware. > I responded with people and their speech that faced intolerance with total disregard for free speech. I doesn't even look like you are following the conversation anymore. Yes, I'm fully aware of how you responded. My point is that "people facing intolerance with total disregard for free speech" is not a new thing, as evidenced by the examples given from earlier times. Breaking this down, you seem to think that giving examples of intolerance is enough to prove the initial claim, "people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech.", but it isn't. If someone else shows equal intolerance prior to the last 6-8 years, all your examples show is that the intolerance has not changed. You haven't shown that they've gotten worse, only that they haven't gotten better. > You are mixing up causation. You're once again misunderstanding my comment. I'm making the opposite causality argument than the one you appear to think I'm making. As acceptance of gay people goes up, acceptance of slurs against gay people goes down. The question is, then, did we have "freer" speech when people faced criticism for saying "I am gay" as they did in the past, as compared to now where you face criticism for calling someone a slur?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]