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Which is ironic since cars needs to be bigger today in order to conform to safety regulations, which include pedestrian safety.

Causality1 5y ago
You're getting downvoted but that's a valid point. If you spend any time around older vehicles you notice how "chunky" modern cars are, how little passenger volume they have compared to their outer dimensions. I'm not saying those measures aren't worth it, but they are making cars bigger.
- giantg2 5y ago
  It depends on the timeframe. 30-40 years ago there were cars like the Caprice. You can't even get a car with that size and capacity today (look at how small the modern caprice is). I would say the general trend is cars are getting smaller and people are opting for larger types of vehicles like SUVs.
  - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
    I think you are describing a different phenomenon: Large sedans getting replaced by other vehicle types leaving smaller sedans. The case of the caprice seems to be a totally different vehicle if I am understanding the years you have in mind correctly. Certainly the newer models of caprice are targeting a very different audience than the old ones did.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      "I think you are describing a different phenomenon: Large sedans getting replaced by other vehicle types leaving smaller sedans." Basically, but it's also that the meaning of the terms have changed. The Caprice is and was a full size car. Today's full size car has about the same capacities and room as an older midsize car.
newacct583 5y ago
I don't think that's responsive. Regulations are forcing up the size of the smallest vehicles. The median vehicle in the US is a SUV with almost twice the curb weight of those "larger" compacts. The change in median vehicle weight is absolutely not being caused by safety regulations.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Regulations are forcing up the size of everything short of a fullsize truck or van. Cars in various segments (compact, midsize, crossover, midsize crossover, etc, etc) have set ranged of interior dimensions. For example, a Civic will always be about the same width as a CRV (same platform) and an Accord will always be wider than both. But all these cars have grown a lot compared to their 90s counterparts. With regulations requiring thick doors, pillars, etc. the exteriors of all these vehicles have grown and interior space has stayed closer to constant. Obviously the pressure is less the bigger the vehicle is so this doesn't explain modern trucks but the pressure is definitely felt everywhere, not just as the small end.
Someone 5y ago
FTA: “federal policymakers have so far failed to make any significant changes to the New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) to include testing, ratings, or safety standards for people outside a vehicle, whether on foot, bike, or using assistive devices. Read that again: we do not test for, or even consider, the impact of a new car’s design on potential collisions with human beings not in a vehicle—an action that results in a death more than 6,200 times per year and increasing almost every year.” ⇒ I don’t think what you say is true in the USA.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Yes and no, but I think mostly yes. Asian and European regulations on pedestrian safety for autos have an effect on design worldwide as most makers want to sell their cars into most markets. Many of the cars you buy in the US meet those pedestrian safety regulations, even though there’s no US regulation requiring it. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-hit-how-pedestrian-protection-regs-make-cars-fatter-feature/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-h...
  - stefan_ 5y ago
    These two markets are increasingly divorced. Absurdly huge trucks are an unique US obsession.
    - underwater 5y ago
      I'm beginning to see them creeping into Australia. Absolute insanity to drive a massive RAM or Ford pickup in a crowded city.
- wyager 5y ago
  Only 6200 per year? Reducing this by maybe a few hundred does not seem like a productive thing to spend political energy on. I question if it would be utilitarian even ignoring the political cost. That’s really far down the cause of death list.
wyager 5y ago
The front ~1foot of my car is 90% air, presumably to create some crumple zone. Very space-inefficient.
- Someone 5y ago
  Don’t try this at home, but if any part of your body with that 90% air at car speed, what do you think will crumple first? That crumple zone does very little to protect people outside the car.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I have a friend who was hit by a car doing around 25 mph. Those plastic bumpers do prevent damage. If he got hit with an older car with steel bumpers, it would be a different outcome.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Not to ruin your witty comment with reality but... If his car is sold internationally that "mostly air" bulbous nose is likely specifically engineered to reduce damage to pedestrians.
jeffbee 5y ago
Doesn't seem like that is necessarily true. The 4th-generation Mazda Miata is lighter than the 1st-generation, despite conforming to all relevant modern safety standards, and being a generally all-around better vehicle.
- magila 5y ago
  The Miata is an outlier. Mazda went to great lengths to keep the car's weight down since being light weight is a big part of the car's appeal. The extra development cost and tradeoffs wouldn't make sense for the typical sedan, let alone larger vehicles.
michaelrpeskin 5y ago
I’m no apologist for new big cars, but…I was dropping my kids off at school and a 1st grader was riding her bike through the crosswalk and another driver didn’t see her. He bumped her at less-than walking speed so no one was seriously injured. I was amazed at how she bounced up and away from the car. If I would have hit her with my (old) truck, even at that super low speed, I’m sure she would have gotten caught on the bumper and pulled under the wheels. The new pedestrian safety designs are cool even though they do make all cars look the same and bulbous now.

Causality1 5y ago

You're getting downvoted but that's a valid point. If you spend any time around older vehicles you notice how "chunky" modern cars are, how little passenger volume they have compared to their outer dimensions. I'm not saying those measures aren't worth it, but they are making cars bigger.

giantg2 5y ago
It depends on the timeframe. 30-40 years ago there were cars like the Caprice. You can't even get a car with that size and capacity today (look at how small the modern caprice is). I would say the general trend is cars are getting smaller and people are opting for larger types of vehicles like SUVs.
- MobiusHorizons 5y ago
  I think you are describing a different phenomenon: Large sedans getting replaced by other vehicle types leaving smaller sedans. The case of the caprice seems to be a totally different vehicle if I am understanding the years you have in mind correctly. Certainly the newer models of caprice are targeting a very different audience than the old ones did.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    "I think you are describing a different phenomenon: Large sedans getting replaced by other vehicle types leaving smaller sedans." Basically, but it's also that the meaning of the terms have changed. The Caprice is and was a full size car. Today's full size car has about the same capacities and room as an older midsize car.

newacct583 5y ago

I don't think that's responsive. Regulations are forcing up the size of the smallest vehicles. The median vehicle in the US is a SUV with almost twice the curb weight of those "larger" compacts. The change in median vehicle weight is absolutely not being caused by safety regulations.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Regulations are forcing up the size of everything short of a fullsize truck or van. Cars in various segments (compact, midsize, crossover, midsize crossover, etc, etc) have set ranged of interior dimensions. For example, a Civic will always be about the same width as a CRV (same platform) and an Accord will always be wider than both. But all these cars have grown a lot compared to their 90s counterparts. With regulations requiring thick doors, pillars, etc. the exteriors of all these vehicles have grown and interior space has stayed closer to constant. Obviously the pressure is less the bigger the vehicle is so this doesn't explain modern trucks but the pressure is definitely felt everywhere, not just as the small end.

Someone 5y ago

FTA: “federal policymakers have so far failed to make any significant changes to the New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) to include testing, ratings, or safety standards for people outside a vehicle, whether on foot, bike, or using assistive devices. Read that again: we do not test for, or even consider, the impact of a new car’s design on potential collisions with human beings not in a vehicle—an action that results in a death more than 6,200 times per year and increasing almost every year.” ⇒ I don’t think what you say is true in the USA.

sokoloff 5y ago
Yes and no, but I think mostly yes. Asian and European regulations on pedestrian safety for autos have an effect on design worldwide as most makers want to sell their cars into most markets. Many of the cars you buy in the US meet those pedestrian safety regulations, even though there’s no US regulation requiring it. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-hit-how-pedestrian-protection-regs-make-cars-fatter-feature/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-h...
- stefan_ 5y ago
  These two markets are increasingly divorced. Absurdly huge trucks are an unique US obsession.
  - underwater 5y ago
    I'm beginning to see them creeping into Australia. Absolute insanity to drive a massive RAM or Ford pickup in a crowded city.
wyager 5y ago
Only 6200 per year? Reducing this by maybe a few hundred does not seem like a productive thing to spend political energy on. I question if it would be utilitarian even ignoring the political cost. That’s really far down the cause of death list.

wyager 5y ago

The front ~1foot of my car is 90% air, presumably to create some crumple zone. Very space-inefficient.

Someone 5y ago
Don’t try this at home, but if any part of your body with that 90% air at car speed, what do you think will crumple first? That crumple zone does very little to protect people outside the car.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I have a friend who was hit by a car doing around 25 mph. Those plastic bumpers do prevent damage. If he got hit with an older car with steel bumpers, it would be a different outcome.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Not to ruin your witty comment with reality but... If his car is sold internationally that "mostly air" bulbous nose is likely specifically engineered to reduce damage to pedestrians.

jeffbee 5y ago

Doesn't seem like that is necessarily true. The 4th-generation Mazda Miata is lighter than the 1st-generation, despite conforming to all relevant modern safety standards, and being a generally all-around better vehicle.

magila 5y ago
The Miata is an outlier. Mazda went to great lengths to keep the car's weight down since being light weight is a big part of the car's appeal. The extra development cost and tradeoffs wouldn't make sense for the typical sedan, let alone larger vehicles.

michaelrpeskin 5y ago

I’m no apologist for new big cars, but…I was dropping my kids off at school and a 1st grader was riding her bike through the crosswalk and another driver didn’t see her. He bumped her at less-than walking speed so no one was seriously injured. I was amazed at how she bounced up and away from the car. If I would have hit her with my (old) truck, even at that super low speed, I’m sure she would have gotten caught on the bumper and pulled under the wheels. The new pedestrian safety designs are cool even though they do make all cars look the same and bulbous now.