4 ms·

#1 rule people forget is: how fast can you stop. You see it with young car guys vs old ones. Old dudes upgrade the brakes before the turbo and visa versa

tyingq 5y ago
Some of that may be because brakes on old cars (drum brakes, undersized discs, etc) were often terrible. I think stock brakes have been quite good on most cars in the last 15 years or so. For example, a 2021 Chevy Surburban is a HUGE SUV, but does 70mph-0 in 166 feet. Better than a 1999 Camaro Z28 or Mustang GT, at 184 and 182 feet, respectively.
- mrfusion 5y ago
  Are those numbers with threshold braking or engaging the ABS?
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Not sure, but here's the sources: The article with the Suburban data: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a35048882/tahoe-yukon-escalade-braking-performance/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a35048882/tahoe-yukon-... Mustang and Camaro: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15140859/1999-chevrolet-camaro-z28-vs-ford-mustang-gt-archived-comparison/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a151408...
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I wonder how the 20 year old GT cars would do on modern tire construction and compounds?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Probably pretty good but not better than modern cars. In the 2000s one of the car magazines tested top trim (big engine, race package, etc) classic muscle cars on modern tires and they put down respectable numbers, not better than 00s cars, but respectable. Suspension and chassis stuff hasn't come all that far since the 90s so high end cars of that era should be able to handle very respectably compared to modern stuff. The differences are more apparent at the low end. Modern crossovers handle very respectably for what they are. Obviously modern stuff will always win in a straight line because power levels increased massively over the past 20yr.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  It's a trope from the days when you could still get vehicles with manual brakes with no power assist. As you can imagine enabling such a vehicle to go faster greatly increases the workout the operator is going to be getting to the point where if you want to drive aggressively in stop and go traffic the operator is the limiting factor.
_carbyau_ 5y ago
Your statement reminds me of my concerns over electric scooters. They don't go superfast - maybe 30kmhr(18mph) - but the centre of mass(hips) location compared to the front wheel looks like a bad braking scenario...
- tjbiddle 5y ago
  You learn to shift your weight appropriately, but yes - definitely something to be aware of as it throws you if you're not expecting it. I'm speaking from experience on an electric longboard, but ridden both. I find the scooters you're more instinctively likely to brace on the handlebars.
exporectomy 5y ago
#1 rule people forget is how fast you can stop isn't determined by the brakes as long as they're already strong enough to lock the wheels or cause loss of control, which they always are on cars and often on bikes.
- calvinmorrison 5y ago
  The bigger concern on cars is, how many times can you apply the brakes before experiencing fade or overheating. But yeah - there's a reason old guys use expensive tires too!
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
I really, really, really, really hate this trope. You have to go back to the days of drum brakes and no power assist for this to even be close to true. Yet it gets tossed around in every comment thread about modifying anything that rolls because it gets easy virtue points from the safety crowd. OE brakes on damn near every vehicle made in the last 50yr from a Walmart bike up to a semi truck are more than capable of stopping harder than even nice tires can grip the road. Will you go through more consumables if you use the vehicle harder (enabled by having more power on tap) sure? You'll also go through more tires too. That doesn't mean the brakes are insufficient.

tyingq 5y ago

Some of that may be because brakes on old cars (drum brakes, undersized discs, etc) were often terrible. I think stock brakes have been quite good on most cars in the last 15 years or so. For example, a 2021 Chevy Surburban is a HUGE SUV, but does 70mph-0 in 166 feet. Better than a 1999 Camaro Z28 or Mustang GT, at 184 and 182 feet, respectively.

mrfusion 5y ago
Are those numbers with threshold braking or engaging the ABS?
- tyingq 5y ago
  Not sure, but here's the sources: The article with the Suburban data: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a35048882/tahoe-yukon-escalade-braking-performance/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a35048882/tahoe-yukon-... Mustang and Camaro: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15140859/1999-chevrolet-camaro-z28-vs-ford-mustang-gt-archived-comparison/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a151408...
sokoloff 5y ago
I wonder how the 20 year old GT cars would do on modern tire construction and compounds?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Probably pretty good but not better than modern cars. In the 2000s one of the car magazines tested top trim (big engine, race package, etc) classic muscle cars on modern tires and they put down respectable numbers, not better than 00s cars, but respectable. Suspension and chassis stuff hasn't come all that far since the 90s so high end cars of that era should be able to handle very respectably compared to modern stuff. The differences are more apparent at the low end. Modern crossovers handle very respectably for what they are. Obviously modern stuff will always win in a straight line because power levels increased massively over the past 20yr.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
It's a trope from the days when you could still get vehicles with manual brakes with no power assist. As you can imagine enabling such a vehicle to go faster greatly increases the workout the operator is going to be getting to the point where if you want to drive aggressively in stop and go traffic the operator is the limiting factor.

_carbyau_ 5y ago

Your statement reminds me of my concerns over electric scooters. They don't go superfast - maybe 30kmhr(18mph) - but the centre of mass(hips) location compared to the front wheel looks like a bad braking scenario...

tjbiddle 5y ago
You learn to shift your weight appropriately, but yes - definitely something to be aware of as it throws you if you're not expecting it. I'm speaking from experience on an electric longboard, but ridden both. I find the scooters you're more instinctively likely to brace on the handlebars.

exporectomy 5y ago

#1 rule people forget is how fast you can stop isn't determined by the brakes as long as they're already strong enough to lock the wheels or cause loss of control, which they always are on cars and often on bikes.

calvinmorrison 5y ago
The bigger concern on cars is, how many times can you apply the brakes before experiencing fade or overheating. But yeah - there's a reason old guys use expensive tires too!

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

I really, really, really, really hate this trope. You have to go back to the days of drum brakes and no power assist for this to even be close to true. Yet it gets tossed around in every comment thread about modifying anything that rolls because it gets easy virtue points from the safety crowd. OE brakes on damn near every vehicle made in the last 50yr from a Walmart bike up to a semi truck are more than capable of stopping harder than even nice tires can grip the road. Will you go through more consumables if you use the vehicle harder (enabled by having more power on tap) sure? You'll also go through more tires too. That doesn't mean the brakes are insufficient.