6 ms·

I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

48 points by AllSeason 5y ago

QuackyTheDuck 5y ago
Well, I guess there is more to being a hacker than just having programming experience. I understand that the post is more than its title, but I couldn’t resist and got triggered by it. For me, it’s about being curious, not taking any technical solution for granted and having the inner need and energy to explore, to experiment, to be skeptical and feeling the drive to improve things …
- rstat1 5y ago
  >> For me, it’s about being curious, not taking any technical solution for granted and having the inner need and energy to explore, to experiment, to be skeptical and feeling the drive to improve things … I agree with this. I like to learn how things work, and to experiment with all kinds of crazy ideas (some of which end up not being so crazy after all). I grew up in the 90's where I always heard the term "hacker" used to refer to someone breaking in to a computer or network somewhere, like they were the digital equal of a "cat burglar" or something. Not the usual positive meaning that it has today. I've been coding for as long as the author of the linked post, and would as result of the above, never refer to myself as a "hacker".
void_mint 5y ago
The "hacker" stereotype is just gatekeeping nonsense. Not identifying with it is a positive.
- mycall 5y ago
  "Researcher" always has a better ring to it anyways.
  - avmich 5y ago
    But maybe different enough. If "researcher" is a systematic Kamerlingh Onnes of computers, "hacker" could be viewed more as imaginative Faraday.
  - carrolldunham 5y ago
    just a lone voice from the outside world but perhaps programmers could just call themselves programmers and stop trying to take on terms that already have meanings? it's surreal at first reading silicon valley discourse - you have to learn that when you guys say 'engineer' it doesn't mean an engineer. it means a programmer. Likewise I imagine a researcher who actually engages in research would be similarly lost trying to find you guys theorems etc. when you start calling yourselves researchers
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      engineer made sense to me after reading this, but researcher is laughable for most https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/ https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/
      - dnissley 5y ago
        I find this whole article so bizarre because it never contends with the definition of "engineer" that's always made the most intuitive sense to me, which is as the person label behind the practice half of the theory/practice dichotomy, with "scientist" representing the theory half. This is obviously broad compared to the other definitions, but I've always liked how flexible it was. E.g. I have no real issues thinking of doctors and lawyers as engineers in this way. Doctors engineer solutions to bodily dysfunctions, and lawyers engineer solutions to their clients' problems with the law.
        void_mint 5y ago
        Engineer, from wikipedia: > Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are professionals who invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost.[1][2] I think it's just kind of silly to try to title something based on the how, not the what. A painter paints, right? But what about all of the other jobs and roles that include painting? Are they painters? Those that disagree with "Software engineers" being called "Engineers" are again propagating nonsense (my post that started this thread).
- mjevans 5y ago
  In the days of lore, a "hacker" was someone that physically altered PCBs, components and maybe even code to alter the behavior of a device.
avmich 5y ago
> "Hacker" doesn't equate to the best software engineer, the best founder Subjective, of course. To some, "hacker" means someone with deep knowledge, almost on instinctive level, of computing things, a native for processes, data and signals. Not negative.
nicetryguy 5y ago
It's my understanding that "hacking" involves breaking into or altering an existing system or piece of software, as opposed to "development" or "engineering" which is the creative process of addending or creating new systems or software. This article discusses neither: it's just a rambling life story and social critique sprinkled with light misandry and self loathing.
kodah 5y ago
I never even really hear the term "hacker" anymore. I'm not sure what's driven it out of the industry. I've been programming since I was nine and I was never called a "hacker", even to date. I was called a "nerd", a term which used to be a pejorative for young boys who spent a lot of time on a computer and had a-typical interests and attire. I was made fun of for reading programming books when I finished my other work, I was chastised by teachers for playing video games, etc... I was young and old enough to watch the crypto-anarchist videos and understand that hackers were something different from what I was. They had a mission and an objective to their sense of curiosity that often resulted in chaos. Then console gaming came about and everyone started using the term in some flowery sense. That was how I viewed it, anyway, until I realized that around that time is when computing became professional. CS and CE became a degree at major colleges and "nerds" were making serious money. It became desirable to refer to yourself as a nerd out of style. Basically, nerds took the word back.
- zem 5y ago
  i think two things drove it out: 1. the long-standing confusion between "someone who tinkers with programs" and "someone who maliciously breaks into systems" the tinkering contingent fought diligently against letting the black hat contingent coopt the term, but then 2. the tech-bro/marketer crowd caught hold of it, and it became associated with other cringy terms like "ninja" and "rockstar". (tangentially, "wizard" also got dragged down that way). so now if you call yourself a hacker, people are more likely to think of both black hats and tech bros than of the (still out there!) people who just want to do interesting stuff with computers.
  - tkgally 5y ago
    For those reasons, I personally would not object if YC decided to change the name of Hacker News to something else. The current name seems misleading, at least to me.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      That would be a shame really.
_rpd 5y ago
The missing component is curiosity.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted. At once the term "hacker" may have accompanied all programmers to some extent, but I view it as someone who tears code apart. Reverse engineering, deconstructing, picking apart. Being curious about a system and picking at it so much you find flaws in it. I'd also consider engineers that hack things together. Being creative with what you have, also helps when stringing vulnerabilities together. Creativity and curiosity are good traits of a hacker and being a hacker is a good trait of a programmer.
- ddingus 5y ago
  This is really true and should be taken as the basic info OP is curious to know. Perhaps that leads them to ask questions, play a little, explore in their own way, unexpectedly so.
ipaddr 5y ago
hacker = diy = punk = black flag? The words mean so many things. It usually starts with being curious and learning how things work and then going one step further and using that technology in ways no one expected. A programmer was never a hacker. Many hackers program but most programmers do not hack. Just because you have been working in computers since 8 it doesn't make you a hacker. Taking something and using it in unexpected ways would need to be part of it. None of this matters without the right philosophy of curiousity and discovery.
ddingus 5y ago
Hacking is very often associated with computer systems, both in the sense of code and circuits, networks that connect them. But, actually hacking is a distinct thing apart from all that. My earliest hack was on locked doors as a little kid. Standing alone in a hall, I grabbed the knob and began to explore playfully. I remember the thought: What does locked actually mean? The knob still moves. A little. Turns out that door knob could move. So I moved it a little. Back and forth. After a time, back permitted more movement than forth did. Why? Also turns out moving forth fast, then back, then forth again yields more movement overall, but only briefly. And only when continued. ... And then it happened. More and more varied movements, patterns, and the door just opened. No key. I remember that so vividly, because it changed how I think, or maybe just expanded scope. Was a big deal. I never expected to actually open the door. There are expected inputs, actions, moves, information. And there is also the unexpected. There is what a thing was designed for, and that intent may actually overlap with other use cases, sort of like off label drug use does. More importantly, there is how we may believe a thing works, what we tell people about how it works and whether there are lies, omissions, and the like. And there is what it actually does, given unexpected inputs, or even the approved ones. That all gets at what hacking really is. People seek understanding of tech around them. And they do that directly, themselves. Playfully, often enough. Their reasons vary good and bad, of course. Farmers are traditionally great hackers, and their reasons are some of the best! People need food and the world is complex, high cost, high risks, and when that goes bad people do not eat. A good farmer will do what it takes to bring a crop in. And should. I grew up near one. That is very likely where some of my own inclinations came from. Others can cite examples. Good and bad. Really, what I wanted to get at was the mindset. Being curious about systems, tech, basically the machinery we live in, around, or use, own. Knowing the difference between generally accepted human limits, our own limits, and what the machinery of nature will permit. Turns out the more we hack on that, the more we understand and the more our world permits us to do. Same goes for ourselves. Neat, isn't it? Some call this sort of thing science. Others may call it play. Your cat surely does, as did you and I and maybe we still do when we approach tech with that playful gleam in our eye... just what can I make this do, or can I do with this, if... As for the doors? Well, I got good and in the course of a week could enter many locked rooms in less than a minute by hand manipulation of the door knob. Check this 70's foreshadowing on the world today out! So I actually disclosed responsibly. Grade schooler. Talked with an uncle who walked me through scenarios. It made sense to do. When I did know what happened? They, of course made it all about me. Nobody else was a problem. I remember saying that sort of thing is true, until it isn't, and yeah. Did not go well. Eventually, it came down to me saying they just need to fix the locks. A janitor agreed and had found out most were installed wrong. In the wrong position they were subject to hand manipulation due to the mechanism being impacted by gravity. Even worse! That janitor maintained things well always making sure to lube the locks when any were sticky. Why not? Who does not like it when stuff works well, consistently? The fix was to flip them over. Any of that seem like familiar ground? There are some negative connotations around the words, hack and hacker. Me? I tend to ignore them and will identify an activity as a hack and having done it, me, others as hackers. Turns out that uncle was a bit of a hacker too. For a time, he would bring me locks and I would pick them, or get his help and it was great fun! I remember one days conversation too: The locks are there to keep most people honest. It is a cost or barrier to remind us, that sort of thing. Well, all of that remains true whether one can pick locks or not, but with one big difference: saving a life, or escaping real trouble of some kind may actually happen when it might otherwise not. The point here being curious about how tech works is not a crime. It actually has high value! Snuffing that out of people to make another buck, or cover up for other failings, corruption, exploitation, even ignorance and error makes no sense! Sure, we may blunt the peak levels of bad in the world, but we rub out the peak good even more, and it is the good which gets us through hard times, advances tech, and all manner of works that increase the potential for the world to be better, brighter, safer, and above all, a whole lot more fun!
nikanj 5y ago
Not all good players have the messy-haired musician energy, and not all great programmers have the stereotypical hacker personality
watwut 5y ago
IRL, I have heard the term hacker only as a term for "badly written code that kinda works, but is a mess". It was never something positive.
- axelroze 5y ago
  Words change their meaning as languages evolve. Nothing unusual. I can share this experience that in a more professional setting hacky code is bad code. But originally back in the 80s and 90s and even the 2000s a hacker was someone who did something different with their devices just for the sake of it. It was a way of interacting with technology. Finding new uses for technology, finding ways to break it. Pure exploration. From the 2000s with massive expansion of personal computing hacker culture died down. No one wants to be associated with ransomware and silk road. Also cryptocurrencies and all the speculations with them made a huge disservice to the hacker community. It is not 100% dead tho. There is probably some sort of a community hacklab in the place where you live. Give it a visit (after corona dies down a bit).
  - watwut 5y ago
    > But originally back in the 80s and 90s and even the 2000s a hacker was someone who did something different with their devices just for the sake of it I am over 40 and it was already not used that way, except few old peple in few small subcultures angrily insisting on everybody else using the term wrong. But among programmers, "hacking the code" was always negative.
exporectomy 5y ago
Yea, if you're driven by social support, you'll need social support to be driven. That's not really traditional hackerism.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  There's plenty of informal social support within the hacker community - that's what makes it a community of practice in the first place! The very fact that, traditionally, you become a hacker when someone in the community calls you a hacker is testament to that.
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    Well yea people who feel part of that community would. I don't call myself a hacker either but I was modifying hardware and software in my teens for fun so I probably counted as one. I didn't know of any hacker community. It was just a fascinating thing to do. However, I also don't blame anyone for not supporting me, despite the fact that they didn't. No adults around me even understood what I was doing. One teacher told me off for programming in the computer room instead of sitting quietly or whatever dumb time-killer she had planned. But that was no obstacle whatsoever. The fact that this author was put off by a grade in a school project shows how un-self-motivated she was.
- psyc 5y ago
  I have no other reply to this essay. I am unmoved by anybody who requires social cues in order to decide how to spend time. When I got heavily into programming, nobody I knew had the faintest idea of what it was or what I was doing. I couldn’t be bothered, because I was too busy programming.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > When I got heavily into programming, nobody I knew had the faintest idea of what it was or what I was doing. I couldn’t be bothered, because I was too busy programming. That's certainly typical for fledging hackers in 'larval stage', but many people would disagree that this suffices for calling oneself a hacker as a non-novice professional. Some contact, if perhaps only fleeting, with a community of fellow coders and tinkerers would seem to be required for that.
alexcnwy 5y ago
do a hackathon could be self-imposed like pick a project that you have no experience in and do it in a weekend (get something working even if it’s hacky) you will feel like a hacker
zozbot234 5y ago
(2014)
bencollier49 5y ago
Reading this article, I think the reason that the author doesn't feel like a hacker is that it's a cultural label and a lifestyle (almost like "goth" or "punk"). The author recounts three or four occasions when they did some programming at school. They're quite right - that isn't being a "hacker". IMO that requires a level of monomania which means that a significant portion of their spare time is spent on computer projects. I'd agree with them that "hacker" doesn't necessarily imply "good computer employee" though, and this will increasingly be the case as in the industry matures, but it does mean that the person concerned deeply loves the field, and that's someone you probably want to work with, if they're not also a sociopath. I know a few people from school who weren't remotely interested in computers at the time, but ended up on CS programmes. Typically those are the people who became managers in the end. A lot of the "hackers" are still programming. I don't think this has anything to do with the Dilbert principle. It's more to do with their having developed decent people-skills in their youth, possibly due to their lack of monomania (or reverse causation). But it also speaks to their motivations. The article suggests that we not focus on the "hacker stereotype", but it's a stereotype because it's a thing. Ignoring it seems silly as well. Deliberately trying to undermine or change it culturally seems like vandalism. The answer is probably to highlight the fact that a team with only "hackers" on it will probably not do quite as well as a more mixed team including a bunch of people from other backgrounds as well.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > The author recounts three or four occasions when they did some programming at school. They're quite right - that isn't being a "hacker". It's a difficult assessment, because OP seems like they had some spontaneous appreciation for 'hack value', in that they chose to go well beyond the requirements of their LOGO assignment. Ultimately, though, OP was unable to join a supportive community of hackers, and this stunted their intellectual growth and left them with a dislike for the very idea of becoming a hacker. I don't think this has much to do with OP being female; it's quite clear that OP was badly taught, at a time when coding was far less regarded than today.
  - bencollier49 5y ago
notanzaiiswear 5y ago
I don't think boys were generally encouraged to get into programming. A friend of mine who was openly into computers was ridiculed by the whole school. To this day parents are suspicious of "screen time", I am constantly fighting my wife to let her allow my son use the computer. There were specific jokes about people in Engineering at university, as to them being all male and never getting laid. Schools started to have "computer rooms" but teachers were not well qualified to use them or to teach students about their use. My male friends who were into computers would have loved it if girls were interested in that. They just weren't, unless they needed help with their homework or something. In my Maths degree women did get a lot of encouragement and people are always eager to help. For example a friend of mine received a stipend for her achievements after the first year of study. By her own admission she wasn't the most brilliant student, although at least I think she was very "straight" (always doing her homework, always studying in time for tests, and so on). Only with hindsight did I realise that she probably got the stipend because she was a woman (to generally encourage women in Maths perhaps).

48 points by AllSeason 5y ago

Well, I guess there is more to being a hacker than just having programming experience. I understand that the post is more than its title, but I couldn’t resist and got triggered by it. For me, it’s about being curious, not taking any technical solution for granted and having the inner need and energy to explore, to experiment, to be skeptical and feeling the drive to improve things …

rstat1 5y ago
>> For me, it’s about being curious, not taking any technical solution for granted and having the inner need and energy to explore, to experiment, to be skeptical and feeling the drive to improve things … I agree with this. I like to learn how things work, and to experiment with all kinds of crazy ideas (some of which end up not being so crazy after all). I grew up in the 90's where I always heard the term "hacker" used to refer to someone breaking in to a computer or network somewhere, like they were the digital equal of a "cat burglar" or something. Not the usual positive meaning that it has today. I've been coding for as long as the author of the linked post, and would as result of the above, never refer to myself as a "hacker".

void_mint 5y ago

The "hacker" stereotype is just gatekeeping nonsense. Not identifying with it is a positive.

mycall 5y ago
"Researcher" always has a better ring to it anyways.
- avmich 5y ago
  But maybe different enough. If "researcher" is a systematic Kamerlingh Onnes of computers, "hacker" could be viewed more as imaginative Faraday.
- carrolldunham 5y ago
  just a lone voice from the outside world but perhaps programmers could just call themselves programmers and stop trying to take on terms that already have meanings? it's surreal at first reading silicon valley discourse - you have to learn that when you guys say 'engineer' it doesn't mean an engineer. it means a programmer. Likewise I imagine a researcher who actually engages in research would be similarly lost trying to find you guys theorems etc. when you start calling yourselves researchers
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    engineer made sense to me after reading this, but researcher is laughable for most https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/ https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/
    - dnissley 5y ago
      I find this whole article so bizarre because it never contends with the definition of "engineer" that's always made the most intuitive sense to me, which is as the person label behind the practice half of the theory/practice dichotomy, with "scientist" representing the theory half. This is obviously broad compared to the other definitions, but I've always liked how flexible it was. E.g. I have no real issues thinking of doctors and lawyers as engineers in this way. Doctors engineer solutions to bodily dysfunctions, and lawyers engineer solutions to their clients' problems with the law.
      - void_mint 5y ago
        Engineer, from wikipedia: > Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are professionals who invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost.[1][2] I think it's just kind of silly to try to title something based on the how, not the what. A painter paints, right? But what about all of the other jobs and roles that include painting? Are they painters? Those that disagree with "Software engineers" being called "Engineers" are again propagating nonsense (my post that started this thread).
mjevans 5y ago
In the days of lore, a "hacker" was someone that physically altered PCBs, components and maybe even code to alter the behavior of a device.

avmich 5y ago

> "Hacker" doesn't equate to the best software engineer, the best founder Subjective, of course. To some, "hacker" means someone with deep knowledge, almost on instinctive level, of computing things, a native for processes, data and signals. Not negative.

nicetryguy 5y ago

It's my understanding that "hacking" involves breaking into or altering an existing system or piece of software, as opposed to "development" or "engineering" which is the creative process of addending or creating new systems or software. This article discusses neither: it's just a rambling life story and social critique sprinkled with light misandry and self loathing.

kodah 5y ago

I never even really hear the term "hacker" anymore. I'm not sure what's driven it out of the industry. I've been programming since I was nine and I was never called a "hacker", even to date. I was called a "nerd", a term which used to be a pejorative for young boys who spent a lot of time on a computer and had a-typical interests and attire. I was made fun of for reading programming books when I finished my other work, I was chastised by teachers for playing video games, etc... I was young and old enough to watch the crypto-anarchist videos and understand that hackers were something different from what I was. They had a mission and an objective to their sense of curiosity that often resulted in chaos. Then console gaming came about and everyone started using the term in some flowery sense. That was how I viewed it, anyway, until I realized that around that time is when computing became professional. CS and CE became a degree at major colleges and "nerds" were making serious money. It became desirable to refer to yourself as a nerd out of style. Basically, nerds took the word back.

zem 5y ago
i think two things drove it out: 1. the long-standing confusion between "someone who tinkers with programs" and "someone who maliciously breaks into systems" the tinkering contingent fought diligently against letting the black hat contingent coopt the term, but then 2. the tech-bro/marketer crowd caught hold of it, and it became associated with other cringy terms like "ninja" and "rockstar". (tangentially, "wizard" also got dragged down that way). so now if you call yourself a hacker, people are more likely to think of both black hats and tech bros than of the (still out there!) people who just want to do interesting stuff with computers.
- tkgally 5y ago
  For those reasons, I personally would not object if YC decided to change the name of Hacker News to something else. The current name seems misleading, at least to me.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    That would be a shame really.

_rpd 5y ago

The missing component is curiosity.

hunterb123 5y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. At once the term "hacker" may have accompanied all programmers to some extent, but I view it as someone who tears code apart. Reverse engineering, deconstructing, picking apart. Being curious about a system and picking at it so much you find flaws in it. I'd also consider engineers that hack things together. Being creative with what you have, also helps when stringing vulnerabilities together. Creativity and curiosity are good traits of a hacker and being a hacker is a good trait of a programmer.
ddingus 5y ago
This is really true and should be taken as the basic info OP is curious to know. Perhaps that leads them to ask questions, play a little, explore in their own way, unexpectedly so.

ipaddr 5y ago

hacker = diy = punk = black flag? The words mean so many things. It usually starts with being curious and learning how things work and then going one step further and using that technology in ways no one expected. A programmer was never a hacker. Many hackers program but most programmers do not hack. Just because you have been working in computers since 8 it doesn't make you a hacker. Taking something and using it in unexpected ways would need to be part of it. None of this matters without the right philosophy of curiousity and discovery.

ddingus 5y ago

Hacking is very often associated with computer systems, both in the sense of code and circuits, networks that connect them. But, actually hacking is a distinct thing apart from all that. My earliest hack was on locked doors as a little kid. Standing alone in a hall, I grabbed the knob and began to explore playfully. I remember the thought: What does locked actually mean? The knob still moves. A little. Turns out that door knob could move. So I moved it a little. Back and forth. After a time, back permitted more movement than forth did. Why? Also turns out moving forth fast, then back, then forth again yields more movement overall, but only briefly. And only when continued. ... And then it happened. More and more varied movements, patterns, and the door just opened. No key. I remember that so vividly, because it changed how I think, or maybe just expanded scope. Was a big deal. I never expected to actually open the door. There are expected inputs, actions, moves, information. And there is also the unexpected. There is what a thing was designed for, and that intent may actually overlap with other use cases, sort of like off label drug use does. More importantly, there is how we may believe a thing works, what we tell people about how it works and whether there are lies, omissions, and the like. And there is what it actually does, given unexpected inputs, or even the approved ones. That all gets at what hacking really is. People seek understanding of tech around them. And they do that directly, themselves. Playfully, often enough. Their reasons vary good and bad, of course. Farmers are traditionally great hackers, and their reasons are some of the best! People need food and the world is complex, high cost, high risks, and when that goes bad people do not eat. A good farmer will do what it takes to bring a crop in. And should. I grew up near one. That is very likely where some of my own inclinations came from. Others can cite examples. Good and bad. Really, what I wanted to get at was the mindset. Being curious about systems, tech, basically the machinery we live in, around, or use, own. Knowing the difference between generally accepted human limits, our own limits, and what the machinery of nature will permit. Turns out the more we hack on that, the more we understand and the more our world permits us to do. Same goes for ourselves. Neat, isn't it? Some call this sort of thing science. Others may call it play. Your cat surely does, as did you and I and maybe we still do when we approach tech with that playful gleam in our eye... just what can I make this do, or can I do with this, if... As for the doors? Well, I got good and in the course of a week could enter many locked rooms in less than a minute by hand manipulation of the door knob. Check this 70's foreshadowing on the world today out! So I actually disclosed responsibly. Grade schooler. Talked with an uncle who walked me through scenarios. It made sense to do. When I did know what happened? They, of course made it all about me. Nobody else was a problem. I remember saying that sort of thing is true, until it isn't, and yeah. Did not go well. Eventually, it came down to me saying they just need to fix the locks. A janitor agreed and had found out most were installed wrong. In the wrong position they were subject to hand manipulation due to the mechanism being impacted by gravity. Even worse! That janitor maintained things well always making sure to lube the locks when any were sticky. Why not? Who does not like it when stuff works well, consistently? The fix was to flip them over. Any of that seem like familiar ground? There are some negative connotations around the words, hack and hacker. Me? I tend to ignore them and will identify an activity as a hack and having done it, me, others as hackers. Turns out that uncle was a bit of a hacker too. For a time, he would bring me locks and I would pick them, or get his help and it was great fun! I remember one days conversation too: The locks are there to keep most people honest. It is a cost or barrier to remind us, that sort of thing. Well, all of that remains true whether one can pick locks or not, but with one big difference: saving a life, or escaping real trouble of some kind may actually happen when it might otherwise not. The point here being curious about how tech works is not a crime. It actually has high value! Snuffing that out of people to make another buck, or cover up for other failings, corruption, exploitation, even ignorance and error makes no sense! Sure, we may blunt the peak levels of bad in the world, but we rub out the peak good even more, and it is the good which gets us through hard times, advances tech, and all manner of works that increase the potential for the world to be better, brighter, safer, and above all, a whole lot more fun!

nikanj 5y ago

Not all good players have the messy-haired musician energy, and not all great programmers have the stereotypical hacker personality

watwut 5y ago

IRL, I have heard the term hacker only as a term for "badly written code that kinda works, but is a mess". It was never something positive.

axelroze 5y ago
Words change their meaning as languages evolve. Nothing unusual. I can share this experience that in a more professional setting hacky code is bad code. But originally back in the 80s and 90s and even the 2000s a hacker was someone who did something different with their devices just for the sake of it. It was a way of interacting with technology. Finding new uses for technology, finding ways to break it. Pure exploration. From the 2000s with massive expansion of personal computing hacker culture died down. No one wants to be associated with ransomware and silk road. Also cryptocurrencies and all the speculations with them made a huge disservice to the hacker community. It is not 100% dead tho. There is probably some sort of a community hacklab in the place where you live. Give it a visit (after corona dies down a bit).
- watwut 5y ago
  > But originally back in the 80s and 90s and even the 2000s a hacker was someone who did something different with their devices just for the sake of it I am over 40 and it was already not used that way, except few old peple in few small subcultures angrily insisting on everybody else using the term wrong. But among programmers, "hacking the code" was always negative.

exporectomy 5y ago

Yea, if you're driven by social support, you'll need social support to be driven. That's not really traditional hackerism.

zozbot234 5y ago
There's plenty of informal social support within the hacker community - that's what makes it a community of practice in the first place! The very fact that, traditionally, you become a hacker when someone in the community calls you a hacker is testament to that.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Well yea people who feel part of that community would. I don't call myself a hacker either but I was modifying hardware and software in my teens for fun so I probably counted as one. I didn't know of any hacker community. It was just a fascinating thing to do. However, I also don't blame anyone for not supporting me, despite the fact that they didn't. No adults around me even understood what I was doing. One teacher told me off for programming in the computer room instead of sitting quietly or whatever dumb time-killer she had planned. But that was no obstacle whatsoever. The fact that this author was put off by a grade in a school project shows how un-self-motivated she was.
psyc 5y ago
I have no other reply to this essay. I am unmoved by anybody who requires social cues in order to decide how to spend time. When I got heavily into programming, nobody I knew had the faintest idea of what it was or what I was doing. I couldn’t be bothered, because I was too busy programming.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > When I got heavily into programming, nobody I knew had the faintest idea of what it was or what I was doing. I couldn’t be bothered, because I was too busy programming. That's certainly typical for fledging hackers in 'larval stage', but many people would disagree that this suffices for calling oneself a hacker as a non-novice professional. Some contact, if perhaps only fleeting, with a community of fellow coders and tinkerers would seem to be required for that.

alexcnwy 5y ago

do a hackathon could be self-imposed like pick a project that you have no experience in and do it in a weekend (get something working even if it’s hacky) you will feel like a hacker

zozbot234 5y ago

(2014)

bencollier49 5y ago

Reading this article, I think the reason that the author doesn't feel like a hacker is that it's a cultural label and a lifestyle (almost like "goth" or "punk"). The author recounts three or four occasions when they did some programming at school. They're quite right - that isn't being a "hacker". IMO that requires a level of monomania which means that a significant portion of their spare time is spent on computer projects. I'd agree with them that "hacker" doesn't necessarily imply "good computer employee" though, and this will increasingly be the case as in the industry matures, but it does mean that the person concerned deeply loves the field, and that's someone you probably want to work with, if they're not also a sociopath. I know a few people from school who weren't remotely interested in computers at the time, but ended up on CS programmes. Typically those are the people who became managers in the end. A lot of the "hackers" are still programming. I don't think this has anything to do with the Dilbert principle. It's more to do with their having developed decent people-skills in their youth, possibly due to their lack of monomania (or reverse causation). But it also speaks to their motivations. The article suggests that we not focus on the "hacker stereotype", but it's a stereotype because it's a thing. Ignoring it seems silly as well. Deliberately trying to undermine or change it culturally seems like vandalism. The answer is probably to highlight the fact that a team with only "hackers" on it will probably not do quite as well as a more mixed team including a bunch of people from other backgrounds as well.

zozbot234 5y ago
> The author recounts three or four occasions when they did some programming at school. They're quite right - that isn't being a "hacker". It's a difficult assessment, because OP seems like they had some spontaneous appreciation for 'hack value', in that they chose to go well beyond the requirements of their LOGO assignment. Ultimately, though, OP was unable to join a supportive community of hackers, and this stunted their intellectual growth and left them with a dislike for the very idea of becoming a hacker. I don't think this has much to do with OP being female; it's quite clear that OP was badly taught, at a time when coding was far less regarded than today.
- bencollier49 5y ago

notanzaiiswear 5y ago

I don't think boys were generally encouraged to get into programming. A friend of mine who was openly into computers was ridiculed by the whole school. To this day parents are suspicious of "screen time", I am constantly fighting my wife to let her allow my son use the computer. There were specific jokes about people in Engineering at university, as to them being all male and never getting laid. Schools started to have "computer rooms" but teachers were not well qualified to use them or to teach students about their use. My male friends who were into computers would have loved it if girls were interested in that. They just weren't, unless they needed help with their homework or something. In my Maths degree women did get a lot of encouragement and people are always eager to help. For example a friend of mine received a stipend for her achievements after the first year of study. By her own admission she wasn't the most brilliant student, although at least I think she was very "straight" (always doing her homework, always studying in time for tests, and so on). Only with hindsight did I realise that she probably got the stipend because she was a woman (to generally encourage women in Maths perhaps).