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Your argument is that we should ignore news media with an “anti lockdown” agenda? It may come as a surprise but not every smart, well meaning person supports t

Your argument is that we should ignore news media with an “anti lockdown” agenda? It may come as a surprise but not every smart, well meaning person supports the lockdowns. You can look at all the publicly available data and come to the conclusion that they were a colossal public health blunder. I would argue the pro lockdown crowd have a huge bias toward ignoring any bit of data that demonstrates lockdowns are a bad idea.

mattmanser 5y ago
The telegraph has pretty much become the raving loony of the right in the UK, not just because of this. It's not a good news source anymore, if you want a rational right-wing paper in the UK these days, read The Times. Used to be the other way around.
Godel_unicode 5y ago
One part of the problem is that the debate got incredibly polarized with ad hominem and thinking of the children. The majority of people on the internet citing 'science' and 'data' (regardless of side) are people who have an opinion and found a fact to support it to which they then cling for dear life. Another part of the problem is the degree to which our understanding of facts has evolved. Take, for instance, the body of evidence for and against PPE of all types and compare it to what was being said in March of 2020. The major failing of public policy was, in my opinion, the inability to articulate the difference between what we knew and what we thought. This was enhanced and exacerbated by the public wanting answers now, and refusing to countenance "we don't know". When historians looks back at this period of history, they are going to marvel at the degree to which we lionized people who "stuck to their guns" and the degree to which we denigrate people who change their opinion when the facts change.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Your argument is that we should ignore news media with an “anti lockdown” agenda? The argument may be more 'be aware of the biases of the news media you consume'. Contrast: > Sweden has recorded more COVID-19 cases per capita than most countries so far: Since the start of the pandemic, roughly 11 out of every 100 people in Sweden have been diagnosed with COVID-19, compared with 9.4 out of every 100 in the UK and 7.4 per 100 in Italy. Sweden has also recorded around 145 COVID-19 deaths for every 100,000 people — around three times more than Denmark, eight times more than Finland, and nearly 10 times more than Norway. […] > Sweden's economy still shrank 8.6% from April to June of last year — its largest quarterly fall in at least 40 years. By comparison, Denmark's economy shrank 7.4% during that time, Norway's 5.1%, and Finland's just 3.2%. (None of these economies shrank by more than 4% over the course of 2020, though.) > Sweden's unemployment rate also rose from 6.6% in March 2020 to 9.5% in March 2021. Norway, Denmark, and Finland all saw unemployment rise by smaller margins: around one percentage point, on average. * https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-strategy-failed-higher-death-rate-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-str... * https://archive.is/dtMEG https://archive.is/dtMEG Compared to the UK (where the Telegraph is based) Sweden did pretty well—but that may not be a valid apples-apples comparison for a variety of reasons. Compared to the other Nordics—which may have more similarities (economy, demographic, geography)—Sweden did not do as well AFAICT.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > The argument may be more 'be aware of the biases of the news media you consume'. Exactly this. That's why I said "it is not an impartial source". This might lead you to stop consuming certain very low quality sources, or in most cases, read them with awareness.

mattmanser 5y ago

The telegraph has pretty much become the raving loony of the right in the UK, not just because of this. It's not a good news source anymore, if you want a rational right-wing paper in the UK these days, read The Times. Used to be the other way around.

Godel_unicode 5y ago

One part of the problem is that the debate got incredibly polarized with ad hominem and thinking of the children. The majority of people on the internet citing 'science' and 'data' (regardless of side) are people who have an opinion and found a fact to support it to which they then cling for dear life. Another part of the problem is the degree to which our understanding of facts has evolved. Take, for instance, the body of evidence for and against PPE of all types and compare it to what was being said in March of 2020. The major failing of public policy was, in my opinion, the inability to articulate the difference between what we knew and what we thought. This was enhanced and exacerbated by the public wanting answers now, and refusing to countenance "we don't know". When historians looks back at this period of history, they are going to marvel at the degree to which we lionized people who "stuck to their guns" and the degree to which we denigrate people who change their opinion when the facts change.

throw0101a 5y ago

> Your argument is that we should ignore news media with an “anti lockdown” agenda? The argument may be more 'be aware of the biases of the news media you consume'. Contrast: > Sweden has recorded more COVID-19 cases per capita than most countries so far: Since the start of the pandemic, roughly 11 out of every 100 people in Sweden have been diagnosed with COVID-19, compared with 9.4 out of every 100 in the UK and 7.4 per 100 in Italy. Sweden has also recorded around 145 COVID-19 deaths for every 100,000 people — around three times more than Denmark, eight times more than Finland, and nearly 10 times more than Norway. […] > Sweden's economy still shrank 8.6% from April to June of last year — its largest quarterly fall in at least 40 years. By comparison, Denmark's economy shrank 7.4% during that time, Norway's 5.1%, and Finland's just 3.2%. (None of these economies shrank by more than 4% over the course of 2020, though.) > Sweden's unemployment rate also rose from 6.6% in March 2020 to 9.5% in March 2021. Norway, Denmark, and Finland all saw unemployment rise by smaller margins: around one percentage point, on average. * https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-strategy-failed-higher-death-rate-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-str... * https://archive.is/dtMEG https://archive.is/dtMEG Compared to the UK (where the Telegraph is based) Sweden did pretty well—but that may not be a valid apples-apples comparison for a variety of reasons. Compared to the other Nordics—which may have more similarities (economy, demographic, geography)—Sweden did not do as well AFAICT.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> The argument may be more 'be aware of the biases of the news media you consume'. Exactly this. That's why I said "it is not an impartial source". This might lead you to stop consuming certain very low quality sources, or in most cases, read them with awareness.