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> I don't think anybody knows how Sweden would have done with a different response to the Covid. In any case, on an objective scale, I think they've done quite

> I don't think anybody knows how Sweden would have done with a different response to the Covid. In any case, on an objective scale, I think they've done quite well and they had a less miserable experience than the rest of us. So first you claim we don't know. Then you claim they've "done quite well". Which is it? What was the purpose of the first sentence?

yodsanklai 5y ago
I'm claiming we don't know what would have happened under different policies (lockdown vs no lockdown) - and those who pretend otherwise don't have scientific evidence to back up their claims. Regardless, I'm claiming they've done quite well under all possible objective metrics compared to other European countries.
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  You should compare Sweden to its closest neighbors, not to all of Europe or all of the World). Countries geographically close to each other are more similar than countries far apart. Therefore you can more readily attribute the difference in death-rates to differences in policy. And use Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation for the 10x difference in death-rates is most probably the correct one: lack of lockdown. It just makes (common) sense. What is your explanation for the 10x difference in death-rates between Sweden and its closest neighbors? Do you have a simpler explanation than the lack of lockdown?
  - mediascreen 5y ago
    Well, first of all it's 10x compared to Norway and 3X compared to Denmark. There are huge differences in demographics between the Scandinavian countries. Over 20% of the Swedish population have been born outside of the country, mostly in the Middle East or Africa. This group has been hit disproportionately by Covid. The risk of needing intensive care for Middle Eastern immigrants in Sweden is 6 times higher than for people with Swedish ancestry, and the risk of dying is 2.8 higher [0]. There are also pretty big differences in how elderly care is organized and run. I'm not saying we did a good job in Sweden, but I definitely think that there are more factors than lockdown in play. [0] https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/2dddee08a4ec4c25a0a59aac7aca14f0/utrikesfodda-och-covid-19.pdf https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/2dddee08a4...
    - galaxyLogic 5y ago
      Surely there are many contributing factors always. The question to ask is: "Would Sweden have done better had it implemented lockdown like its neighbors? In hindsight, would they still make the same decision, if (and when) a new equally deadly pandemic rises again?

yodsanklai 5y ago

I'm claiming we don't know what would have happened under different policies (lockdown vs no lockdown) - and those who pretend otherwise don't have scientific evidence to back up their claims. Regardless, I'm claiming they've done quite well under all possible objective metrics compared to other European countries.

galaxyLogic 5y ago
You should compare Sweden to its closest neighbors, not to all of Europe or all of the World). Countries geographically close to each other are more similar than countries far apart. Therefore you can more readily attribute the difference in death-rates to differences in policy. And use Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation for the 10x difference in death-rates is most probably the correct one: lack of lockdown. It just makes (common) sense. What is your explanation for the 10x difference in death-rates between Sweden and its closest neighbors? Do you have a simpler explanation than the lack of lockdown?
- mediascreen 5y ago
  Well, first of all it's 10x compared to Norway and 3X compared to Denmark. There are huge differences in demographics between the Scandinavian countries. Over 20% of the Swedish population have been born outside of the country, mostly in the Middle East or Africa. This group has been hit disproportionately by Covid. The risk of needing intensive care for Middle Eastern immigrants in Sweden is 6 times higher than for people with Swedish ancestry, and the risk of dying is 2.8 higher [0]. There are also pretty big differences in how elderly care is organized and run. I'm not saying we did a good job in Sweden, but I definitely think that there are more factors than lockdown in play. [0] https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/2dddee08a4ec4c25a0a59aac7aca14f0/utrikesfodda-och-covid-19.pdf https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/2dddee08a4...
  - galaxyLogic 5y ago
    Surely there are many contributing factors always. The question to ask is: "Would Sweden have done better had it implemented lockdown like its neighbors? In hindsight, would they still make the same decision, if (and when) a new equally deadly pandemic rises again?