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> I am 41 years old. We are pretty similar in age. > I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech. Which peopl

> I am 41 years old. We are pretty similar in age. > I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech. Which people, and what speech? I grew up in a smaller town (but not tiny), where teachers who were fired or otherwise quietly left town after coming out as gay. My parents stressed about petty church politics because good standing in the local church had a direct effect on their ability to get and keep (completely secular) jobs. They put out yard signs for candidates they secretly voted against. If you weren't a white right-of-GOP-center conservative evangelical christian, life was an exercise is constant self-censorship. From my perspective, "cancel culture" doesn't really seem particularly new. On average, people enjoy more expressive freedom today than they did in the 1980s. So, again: which people, and what speech? Perhaps a few major metro areas enjoyed true liberalism re: speech in the 80s; I wouldn't know. But in most of America, your golden age of free speech never actually existed.

marcinzm 5y ago
>Perhaps a few major metro areas enjoyed true liberalism re: speech in the 80s The 80s and early 90s were the time of police riots in many cities and heavy gang activity. Neither of those indicates a good result if you said the wrong thing to the wrong people.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  Well then, I guess his golden age of free speech never actually existed anywhere. Go figure.
TeeMassive 5y ago
> Which people, and what speech? I find very peculiar how the proponents of various version of Critical Theory and Cancel Culture simply argues that they do not exist when confronted with criticism; this reminds me of one of my college philosophy professor trying to confuse his students with "nothing really exist" instead of answering the critiques of his teachings. To give a few high profile examples: * People arguing that private companies should be able to do anything with their public platforms regarding politically motivated censorship * Jordan Peterson getting warned by the University of Toronto's lawyers for making a video about how he wouldn't cooperate about being forced to use certain pronouns. * Lindsay Shepherd got disciplined by Wilfrid Laurier University's staff for merely showing a video of Jordan Peterson. * Brett Weinstein was confronted by a hostile mob for criticizing the College for asking White student to stay away from college this day. * Gregg Patton from the University of Southern California was replaced for saying the very usual Chinese expression "ne ga"; while teaching a Chinese Mandarin course. > I grew up in a smaller town (but not tiny), where teachers who were fired or otherwise quietly left town after coming out as gay. It's almost as if things have changed.
- profunctor 5y ago
  There has been politically motivated academic censorship forever. See what happened to communist academics throughout the 20th century.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    And?
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      The thesis of the top-most comment was: >>> And I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech That's the proposition that this particular subthread is discussing. Perhaps you don't care, but in that case I'm a bit confused about why you're commenting this far down-thread.
      - TeeMassive 5y ago
        I was answering to "Which people, and what speech?" Which I gave prominent examples of. The reply of which was simply examples from the USSR era (as opposed to right now in the Western World) without any other argument other than what seems to be whataboutism.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        But that's a valid argument! "Here are tons of other examples from before the past decade" is a perfect response to "I've noticed this new thing in the past decade".
        TeeMassive 5y ago
        Except I was responding to "Which people, and what speech?" which referred to current event and people.
VelkaMorava 5y ago
> Which people, and what speech? cAn U PrOv1d3 s0urc3 pLeAsE fOr YoUr AnEcDoTaL eV1DeNcE?
- lal 5y ago
  Well, yeah, sure, we can pretend that's what parent was saying, or maybe the top comment could just bother actually providing said anecdotal evidence. Saying you have anecdotal evidence is not the same thing as providing anecdotal evidence. Nothing is even communicated by just vaguely gesturing at all of the poor melty peaches except that you spend far too many hours on YouTube, and on one specific region of YouTube in particular. Nobody can interact with your anecdotal evidence if you haven't actually said what your anecdotal evidence is. Edit: It's worth noting that when the commenter actually did name the examples they were thinking of, it was entirely related to right-wing YouTube personalities, so it looks like I was on to something there.
  - VelkaMorava 5y ago
    Right wing is a legit political stance. If you want to see what world would look like without people with political views differing yours, my woke comrade, move to North Korea or Eastern Europe circa 1948-1989. You'll see what an amazing world leftist-only ideologies create. Especially when you won't be able to study at university because one of your parents is not member of the Party and listens to Free Europe. Forwards, left and not a step back! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAAprIN6S4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAAprIN6S4
    - taylodl 5y ago
      Misinformation and calls to violence (we'll apply the 2nd amendment to them) is not a legitimate political stance. Politics is debating the merits of a progressive tax system, for example. Politics is not calling for violence toward your political opponents and their supporters or arguing that the world is flat or interfering with the function of the organs of government.
      - 5y ago

marcinzm 5y ago

>Perhaps a few major metro areas enjoyed true liberalism re: speech in the 80s The 80s and early 90s were the time of police riots in many cities and heavy gang activity. Neither of those indicates a good result if you said the wrong thing to the wrong people.

throwawaygh 5y ago
Well then, I guess his golden age of free speech never actually existed anywhere. Go figure.

TeeMassive 5y ago

> Which people, and what speech? I find very peculiar how the proponents of various version of Critical Theory and Cancel Culture simply argues that they do not exist when confronted with criticism; this reminds me of one of my college philosophy professor trying to confuse his students with "nothing really exist" instead of answering the critiques of his teachings. To give a few high profile examples: * People arguing that private companies should be able to do anything with their public platforms regarding politically motivated censorship * Jordan Peterson getting warned by the University of Toronto's lawyers for making a video about how he wouldn't cooperate about being forced to use certain pronouns. * Lindsay Shepherd got disciplined by Wilfrid Laurier University's staff for merely showing a video of Jordan Peterson. * Brett Weinstein was confronted by a hostile mob for criticizing the College for asking White student to stay away from college this day. * Gregg Patton from the University of Southern California was replaced for saying the very usual Chinese expression "ne ga"; while teaching a Chinese Mandarin course. > I grew up in a smaller town (but not tiny), where teachers who were fired or otherwise quietly left town after coming out as gay. It's almost as if things have changed.

profunctor 5y ago
There has been politically motivated academic censorship forever. See what happened to communist academics throughout the 20th century.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  And?
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    The thesis of the top-most comment was: >>> And I feel like in last 6-8 years, people have become far more intolerant regarding free speech That's the proposition that this particular subthread is discussing. Perhaps you don't care, but in that case I'm a bit confused about why you're commenting this far down-thread.
    - TeeMassive 5y ago
      I was answering to "Which people, and what speech?" Which I gave prominent examples of. The reply of which was simply examples from the USSR era (as opposed to right now in the Western World) without any other argument other than what seems to be whataboutism.
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        But that's a valid argument! "Here are tons of other examples from before the past decade" is a perfect response to "I've noticed this new thing in the past decade".
        TeeMassive 5y ago
        Except I was responding to "Which people, and what speech?" which referred to current event and people.

VelkaMorava 5y ago

> Which people, and what speech? cAn U PrOv1d3 s0urc3 pLeAsE fOr YoUr AnEcDoTaL eV1DeNcE?

lal 5y ago
Well, yeah, sure, we can pretend that's what parent was saying, or maybe the top comment could just bother actually providing said anecdotal evidence. Saying you have anecdotal evidence is not the same thing as providing anecdotal evidence. Nothing is even communicated by just vaguely gesturing at all of the poor melty peaches except that you spend far too many hours on YouTube, and on one specific region of YouTube in particular. Nobody can interact with your anecdotal evidence if you haven't actually said what your anecdotal evidence is. Edit: It's worth noting that when the commenter actually did name the examples they were thinking of, it was entirely related to right-wing YouTube personalities, so it looks like I was on to something there.
- VelkaMorava 5y ago
  Right wing is a legit political stance. If you want to see what world would look like without people with political views differing yours, my woke comrade, move to North Korea or Eastern Europe circa 1948-1989. You'll see what an amazing world leftist-only ideologies create. Especially when you won't be able to study at university because one of your parents is not member of the Party and listens to Free Europe. Forwards, left and not a step back! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAAprIN6S4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAAprIN6S4
  - taylodl 5y ago
    Misinformation and calls to violence (we'll apply the 2nd amendment to them) is not a legitimate political stance. Politics is debating the merits of a progressive tax system, for example. Politics is not calling for violence toward your political opponents and their supporters or arguing that the world is flat or interfering with the function of the organs of government.
    - 5y ago