3 ms·

For some reason I thought just the living conditions in the Soviet Union were bad; I didn't realize 1984 (the book) is literally modeled after Stalinist Russia.

by umvi 5y ago

For some reason I thought just the living conditions in the Soviet Union were bad; I didn't realize 1984 (the book) is literally modeled after Stalinist Russia. I always assumed thought policing was just a theoretical construct of a technological dystopian future, I didn't know the Soviet government actually did it for decades - and to their best and brightest scientists and thinkers! Interesting article, and interesting parallels to our day. Luckily most of the parallels in modern society are reflected in social media mobs and not the government itself (or we would be in very deep trouble), but it's still a bit disturbing how much power said social media mobs seem to wield over corporations and politicians.

ardit33 5y ago
Orwell was initially a socialist sympathizer (went to spain during the spanish civil war), but after the Soviet Union went through major purges in the 30s, and the USSR (bad) treatment of other countries and major ethnic forced relocations inside USSR, he might have had a change of heart later on. He opposed totalitarianism in general, and after the defeat of nazism, he started seeing communism as evil/bad. He worked for communications in the BBC during WW2, and had first hand experience with the language censoring of the time, especially of communication towards British colonies at the time.
- nickff 5y ago
  My understanding is that the NKVD’s purges of Republicans in Spain was what first alarmed Orwell. I believe that he had to escape ‘warrants’ out for his assassination on his way out of Spain.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    Right. Read "Homage to Catalonia" for Orwell's own story.
- spats1990 5y ago
  >had a change of heart later on. He certainly did. Toward the end of his life he produced a list of notable people in the UK and US whom he believed to be Stalinist sympathizers, foreign agents, communists, etc, and passed it to a British Foreign Office employee. Charlie Chaplain was on it, among others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list
vlovich123 5y ago
I’m curious how the thought policing parallel escaped you. Are you younger or just didn’t really get taught/research what happened? Not intended as a critique- just genuinely curious. As for today’s problems, why are you so sure the social media mobs aren’t in some instances government controlled? Certainly we have clear evidence of this happening at least partially in the 2016 US election. Lots of investigative journalism has done good work uncovering how the industry around this kind of stuff is financed. In fact, the KGB 100% exploited social divisions in the past for political gains (eg supporting both white nationalists and the black power movements to encourage more political violence and destabilize US politics). Why would you think that a ruthless politician like Putin who came from t be KGB would be so opposed to leveraging those same tools again? In fact, it seems like they’ve learned their lesson about how to engage in such warfare more effectively.
- kodah 5y ago
  I was pretty surprised to learn those details much less the correlation between 1984 and Stalinist Russia. You're simply not taught that much about this event where and when I went to school.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    Fascinating. There’s a lot of very good popular media exploring the various facets. Killing Stalin East/West Lives of Others (about the Stasi and a bit later than Stalin, but same concept since East Germany was part of the USSR) I’m sure there’s more but they escape my immediate recall at this time. Most of the focus of these kinds of examinations is typically on Nazi Germany but the tactics have replicated in a lot of places, and some clearly pop up in the USA (usually in the form of propaganda being rebranded as advertising or PR). It’s a fascinating (and saddening) period of history to learn more about in terms of how propaganda works, how people exert influence and control of others, retain power, etc.
pcrh 5y ago
There are plenty of contemporary parallels in political parties (who become government). The distinction with 1984 might be that the media is not entirely controlled by the government of the day, but that is not for want of effort.

by umvi 5y ago

ardit33 5y ago

Orwell was initially a socialist sympathizer (went to spain during the spanish civil war), but after the Soviet Union went through major purges in the 30s, and the USSR (bad) treatment of other countries and major ethnic forced relocations inside USSR, he might have had a change of heart later on. He opposed totalitarianism in general, and after the defeat of nazism, he started seeing communism as evil/bad. He worked for communications in the BBC during WW2, and had first hand experience with the language censoring of the time, especially of communication towards British colonies at the time.

nickff 5y ago
My understanding is that the NKVD’s purges of Republicans in Spain was what first alarmed Orwell. I believe that he had to escape ‘warrants’ out for his assassination on his way out of Spain.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  Right. Read "Homage to Catalonia" for Orwell's own story.
spats1990 5y ago
>had a change of heart later on. He certainly did. Toward the end of his life he produced a list of notable people in the UK and US whom he believed to be Stalinist sympathizers, foreign agents, communists, etc, and passed it to a British Foreign Office employee. Charlie Chaplain was on it, among others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list

vlovich123 5y ago

I’m curious how the thought policing parallel escaped you. Are you younger or just didn’t really get taught/research what happened? Not intended as a critique- just genuinely curious. As for today’s problems, why are you so sure the social media mobs aren’t in some instances government controlled? Certainly we have clear evidence of this happening at least partially in the 2016 US election. Lots of investigative journalism has done good work uncovering how the industry around this kind of stuff is financed. In fact, the KGB 100% exploited social divisions in the past for political gains (eg supporting both white nationalists and the black power movements to encourage more political violence and destabilize US politics). Why would you think that a ruthless politician like Putin who came from t be KGB would be so opposed to leveraging those same tools again? In fact, it seems like they’ve learned their lesson about how to engage in such warfare more effectively.

kodah 5y ago
I was pretty surprised to learn those details much less the correlation between 1984 and Stalinist Russia. You're simply not taught that much about this event where and when I went to school.
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Fascinating. There’s a lot of very good popular media exploring the various facets. Killing Stalin East/West Lives of Others (about the Stasi and a bit later than Stalin, but same concept since East Germany was part of the USSR) I’m sure there’s more but they escape my immediate recall at this time. Most of the focus of these kinds of examinations is typically on Nazi Germany but the tactics have replicated in a lot of places, and some clearly pop up in the USA (usually in the form of propaganda being rebranded as advertising or PR). It’s a fascinating (and saddening) period of history to learn more about in terms of how propaganda works, how people exert influence and control of others, retain power, etc.

pcrh 5y ago

There are plenty of contemporary parallels in political parties (who become government). The distinction with 1984 might be that the media is not entirely controlled by the government of the day, but that is not for want of effort.