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I think I understand where you're coming from, and the difference between your view and the popular HN take. You are considering complexity in a more complete s

I think I understand where you're coming from, and the difference between your view and the popular HN take. You are considering complexity in a more complete sense of control theory, interdependence of systems, probabilities of failure, and difficulties in diagnostics. The amount of digital controls and software is a big part of that. The novelty of the systems also means that the ecosystem of support and maintenance is not there (yet?). The typical "EV is simpler" HN take, I think, instead is thinking of mechanical system complexity and mostly ignoring the digital domain. We can see how all those valves, cams, counter-balance shafts, lubrication systems, fuel systems, and emission control systems go away, and they were the root of our most expensive car maintenance nightmares so far. It is hard to compare these apples and oranges, taking away a bunch of mechanical systems, which were exquisitely modular, and replacing them with highly integrated electronic components.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
> We can see how all those valves, cams, counter-balance shafts, lubrication systems, fuel systems, and emission control systems go away, and they were the root of our most expensive car maintenance nightmares so far. That’s a good point. You aren’t going to have an NVLD leak in an EV. But… what people aren’t realizing is how much is added to EVs that replaces all this. How many people realize there is a heating and cooling system for the batteries? Pumps, radiators, heating elements, all sorts of modules for each component, the entire generator system. And it’s all brand new.
- Isinlor 5y ago
  From what I've seen from cars being put apparat by Sandy Munro company the complexity of EV cooling system maps roughly 1 to 1 with ICE. Both need cooling loops basically. There is however a staggering difference between companies. Compare cooling in Ford Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Model Y. Tesla just brutally crashes Ford in how much they are able to reduce number of parts, especially hoses and hose connectors. Tesla has something like 3x less hoses, 3x less parts and half the mass of the coolant in the loop (22kg vs 9 kg). Maybe part of what you are seeing is inexperience and incompetence of ICE car manufacturers. There are also other things that legacy car manufacturers are not willing to risk like megacasting. Something like 50 parts reduction in one cast, and good chunk of the factory floor for Tesla. And apparently the idea was out there long before Tesla but nobody tried it. While Musk loves taking financial risks if they can deliver significant engineering benefits. https://youtu.be/m1kHsd3Ocxc https://youtu.be/m1kHsd3Ocxc Not to mention that while Tesla may be not great at software engineering, ICE car companies and their supply chains are just ridiculously bad at it.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

> We can see how all those valves, cams, counter-balance shafts, lubrication systems, fuel systems, and emission control systems go away, and they were the root of our most expensive car maintenance nightmares so far. That’s a good point. You aren’t going to have an NVLD leak in an EV. But… what people aren’t realizing is how much is added to EVs that replaces all this. How many people realize there is a heating and cooling system for the batteries? Pumps, radiators, heating elements, all sorts of modules for each component, the entire generator system. And it’s all brand new.

Isinlor 5y ago
From what I've seen from cars being put apparat by Sandy Munro company the complexity of EV cooling system maps roughly 1 to 1 with ICE. Both need cooling loops basically. There is however a staggering difference between companies. Compare cooling in Ford Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Model Y. Tesla just brutally crashes Ford in how much they are able to reduce number of parts, especially hoses and hose connectors. Tesla has something like 3x less hoses, 3x less parts and half the mass of the coolant in the loop (22kg vs 9 kg). Maybe part of what you are seeing is inexperience and incompetence of ICE car manufacturers. There are also other things that legacy car manufacturers are not willing to risk like megacasting. Something like 50 parts reduction in one cast, and good chunk of the factory floor for Tesla. And apparently the idea was out there long before Tesla but nobody tried it. While Musk loves taking financial risks if they can deliver significant engineering benefits. https://youtu.be/m1kHsd3Ocxc https://youtu.be/m1kHsd3Ocxc Not to mention that while Tesla may be not great at software engineering, ICE car companies and their supply chains are just ridiculously bad at it.