4 ms·

Sounds like something governments could help with.

by cadence- 5y ago

hughrr 5y ago
Indeed. Only time that happened was in East Germany and it didn’t work out too good.
- SkyMarshal 5y ago
  That wasn't the only time.
- Bootvis 5y ago
  It’s quite a bit more nuanced. I recommend reading some work by Mariana Mazzucato to get some perspective. https://www.google.com/search?q=mariana%20mazzucato https://www.google.com/search?q=mariana%20mazzucato
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    Which book would you recommend?
    - SkyMarshal 5y ago
      Start with "The Value of Everything" [1], then "The Entrepreneurial State". [1]:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23890312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23890312
    - Bootvis 5y ago
      I saw her present her book “The Entrepreneurial State” and read it. It made me look at public and private R&D investments in a new way.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    It's really not. The cost of production was too high compared to other markets which reduced demand. Which is exactly what happens with all government projects.
- utor 5y ago
  Interesting! Did you have any source about East German semiconductor history?
arp242 5y ago
There are a number of companies that can produce lithography machines, just not on the same level as ASML (at the moment anyway). Even if we ignore any patent/IP and upfront investment issues, designing and actually constructing machines which are on par with ASML's is not an easy task and will take years of research, assuming the project succeeds in the first place. What ASML is doing now is the culmination of years of research and investment and some pretty specific know-how. It's kind of like trying to replicate NASA's James Webb telescope project: many of the basic principles aren't very hard, but actually building the thing is.
- sharken 5y ago
  I agree it's a tall order to compete with ASML, patents notwithstanding. So yes patents are not everything, even though cross-licensing is beneficial, rather than invent it yourself. Actually the James Webb telescope, which has a scheduled launch this year, started out in 1996. Given the 25 years it has taken so far and a huge amount of money, then it's not too far fetched to imagine someone replicating a space telescope. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope And now it seems that the name might be changed before launch. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02010-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02010-x

Sounds like something governments could help with.

hughrr 5y ago

Indeed. Only time that happened was in East Germany and it didn’t work out too good.

SkyMarshal 5y ago
That wasn't the only time.
Bootvis 5y ago
It’s quite a bit more nuanced. I recommend reading some work by Mariana Mazzucato to get some perspective. https://www.google.com/search?q=mariana%20mazzucato https://www.google.com/search?q=mariana%20mazzucato
- cinntaile 5y ago
  Which book would you recommend?
  - SkyMarshal 5y ago
    Start with "The Value of Everything" [1], then "The Entrepreneurial State". [1]:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23890312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23890312
  - Bootvis 5y ago
    I saw her present her book “The Entrepreneurial State” and read it. It made me look at public and private R&D investments in a new way.
- hughrr 5y ago
  It's really not. The cost of production was too high compared to other markets which reduced demand. Which is exactly what happens with all government projects.
utor 5y ago
Interesting! Did you have any source about East German semiconductor history?

arp242 5y ago

There are a number of companies that can produce lithography machines, just not on the same level as ASML (at the moment anyway). Even if we ignore any patent/IP and upfront investment issues, designing and actually constructing machines which are on par with ASML's is not an easy task and will take years of research, assuming the project succeeds in the first place. What ASML is doing now is the culmination of years of research and investment and some pretty specific know-how. It's kind of like trying to replicate NASA's James Webb telescope project: many of the basic principles aren't very hard, but actually building the thing is.

sharken 5y ago
I agree it's a tall order to compete with ASML, patents notwithstanding. So yes patents are not everything, even though cross-licensing is beneficial, rather than invent it yourself. Actually the James Webb telescope, which has a scheduled launch this year, started out in 1996. Given the 25 years it has taken so far and a huge amount of money, then it's not too far fetched to imagine someone replicating a space telescope. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope And now it seems that the name might be changed before launch. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02010-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02010-x