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The thing is with EVs, you don't need a range the same as ICE. I'm not sure if you've ever owned an EV, but the vast majority of trips are done relatively local

The thing is with EVs, you don't need a range the same as ICE. I'm not sure if you've ever owned an EV, but the vast majority of trips are done relatively locally and with a home charger, you're pretty much always "full" after you plug in overnight. The nicest thing is that I never have to worry about going to a gas station. For longer trips the range sort-of matters, but at least with Tesla, the Supercharger density makes most road trips not only possible but perfectly comfortable. I happen to enjoy the regular 15-20 minute stops, which is enough to go to the bathroom or stretch. I've heard the same from others who swore they'd hate the forced stops. Sure, some may want to bee-line it, but I don't believe that's true for most. The only other place having slightly longer range would be nice is for cold (going into the mountains to ski in my Y is fine based on where I live, but uses a good chunk of range and much more than the actual driving distance would imply, but it's cold, up a mountain, and with a ski rack on top) or towing (which I don't do, but in generally even a light trailer will halve your range).

nicoburns 5y ago
>the vast majority of trips are done relatively locally and with a home charger Surely this depends on your use case. This is likely true if you use your car to commute, or you live in a rural area so you need to use a car to go shopping. But not everybody uses a car for those things, and you've just listed a bunch of use-cases where the range would be useful. This an option that those who do need it can opt into, which makes perfect sense to me.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  If current EVs don’t support your use case, your use case is in the minority. Average daily round trip commute in the US is ~32 miles. You’re never further than 100 miles between Superchargers in almost the entire country, and that will only improve as governments support rapid charging station deployments. If you’re hauling horse trailers or routinely commuting 150+ miles in a day, sure, EVs don’t meet your needs yet. But for most, they already do. There are several taxi services that have Model Ys in their fleet, so even high utilization use cases are served by existing EVs and related infrastructure.
  - p49k 5y ago
    The US use case doesn’t represent the world, and doesn’t resemble the majority of the EV market. Even in the US, not everyone is a homeowner with a dedicated port as the OP suggests. Personally, if I switched to an EV I’d be jockeying every evening for one of the ~50 public charging spots in my neighborhood, which are already mostly occupied.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      Are you saying installing more EV chargers can’t be solved? I know folks who charge once per week at a Supercharger for 20 min if they can’t charge at home, or their employer offers charging.
      - p49k 5y ago
        Of course it can and will be solved; I'm rebutting the idea that these issues aren't a problem today for most people, based on the assumption that the typical use case is a US suburban household.
  - fastaguy88 5y ago
    Here in northern Montana, there are no super chargers anywhere except on interstates, and more than 75% of the state is more than 100 miles from an interstate. Same for the Dakotas, Wyoming, and Nebraska. 100 miles may be true weighted by population, but it is certainly not true by area between the Mississippi and the west coast.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      It’s taken $600 million and 10 years for Tesla to mostly cover the developed world. Give it another year or two for the most rural areas to get coverage. Most of the country lives outside of Montana, the Dakotas, Wyoming, and Nebraska. Remember, we’re talking the majority of people, not the long tail. https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map
  - nicoburns 5y ago
itsoktocry 5y ago
>I happen to enjoy the regular 15-20 minute stops It's alright when you can guarentee your stop is 15-20 minutes. But it will probably look a lot different when there are 2x, 3x, 10x more EVs on the road. Imagine being in line when everyone has to charge for 15 minutes? https://thedriven.io/2021/06/30/tesla-owners-line-up-at-superchargers-amid-record-canada-temperatures/ https://thedriven.io/2021/06/30/tesla-owners-line-up-at-supe... It will be interesting if charging stations can keep pace with EV adoption.
- yuppie_scum 5y ago
  I believe that the electric companies and charging networks won’t let a good market go unaddressed.
  - aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 5y ago
    Based on that reasoning, though, I would expect them to build capacity around the typical usage, and not peak demand.
- eric_h 5y ago
  I had a similar thought when I stopped for gas at a rest stop a few months back and saw every Tesla super charger there in use
- cogman10 5y ago
  You need less chargers than gas stations and they are somewhat cheaper to deploy and maintain. Tesla has been doing a good job keeping up with demand building out new charge stations. All you need for a charger is enough power. Fortunately, high power power lines tend to follow the same routes as highways and interstates. The supercharger network is something tesla does a lot better than the competition.

nicoburns 5y ago

>the vast majority of trips are done relatively locally and with a home charger Surely this depends on your use case. This is likely true if you use your car to commute, or you live in a rural area so you need to use a car to go shopping. But not everybody uses a car for those things, and you've just listed a bunch of use-cases where the range would be useful. This an option that those who do need it can opt into, which makes perfect sense to me.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
If current EVs don’t support your use case, your use case is in the minority. Average daily round trip commute in the US is ~32 miles. You’re never further than 100 miles between Superchargers in almost the entire country, and that will only improve as governments support rapid charging station deployments. If you’re hauling horse trailers or routinely commuting 150+ miles in a day, sure, EVs don’t meet your needs yet. But for most, they already do. There are several taxi services that have Model Ys in their fleet, so even high utilization use cases are served by existing EVs and related infrastructure.
- p49k 5y ago
  The US use case doesn’t represent the world, and doesn’t resemble the majority of the EV market. Even in the US, not everyone is a homeowner with a dedicated port as the OP suggests. Personally, if I switched to an EV I’d be jockeying every evening for one of the ~50 public charging spots in my neighborhood, which are already mostly occupied.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Are you saying installing more EV chargers can’t be solved? I know folks who charge once per week at a Supercharger for 20 min if they can’t charge at home, or their employer offers charging.
    - p49k 5y ago
      Of course it can and will be solved; I'm rebutting the idea that these issues aren't a problem today for most people, based on the assumption that the typical use case is a US suburban household.
- fastaguy88 5y ago
  Here in northern Montana, there are no super chargers anywhere except on interstates, and more than 75% of the state is more than 100 miles from an interstate. Same for the Dakotas, Wyoming, and Nebraska. 100 miles may be true weighted by population, but it is certainly not true by area between the Mississippi and the west coast.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It’s taken $600 million and 10 years for Tesla to mostly cover the developed world. Give it another year or two for the most rural areas to get coverage. Most of the country lives outside of Montana, the Dakotas, Wyoming, and Nebraska. Remember, we’re talking the majority of people, not the long tail. https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map
- nicoburns 5y ago

itsoktocry 5y ago

>I happen to enjoy the regular 15-20 minute stops It's alright when you can guarentee your stop is 15-20 minutes. But it will probably look a lot different when there are 2x, 3x, 10x more EVs on the road. Imagine being in line when everyone has to charge for 15 minutes? https://thedriven.io/2021/06/30/tesla-owners-line-up-at-superchargers-amid-record-canada-temperatures/ https://thedriven.io/2021/06/30/tesla-owners-line-up-at-supe... It will be interesting if charging stations can keep pace with EV adoption.

yuppie_scum 5y ago
I believe that the electric companies and charging networks won’t let a good market go unaddressed.
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 5y ago
  Based on that reasoning, though, I would expect them to build capacity around the typical usage, and not peak demand.
eric_h 5y ago
I had a similar thought when I stopped for gas at a rest stop a few months back and saw every Tesla super charger there in use
cogman10 5y ago
You need less chargers than gas stations and they are somewhat cheaper to deploy and maintain. Tesla has been doing a good job keeping up with demand building out new charge stations. All you need for a charger is enough power. Fortunately, high power power lines tend to follow the same routes as highways and interstates. The supercharger network is something tesla does a lot better than the competition.