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I have found this video to be cope, it's trying to justify clickbait as "making an effective title". I think it's important to have in mind what was the purpose

I have found this video to be cope, it's trying to justify clickbait as "making an effective title". I think it's important to have in mind what was the purpose of the internet: to accelerate the access to relevant information so that the world can move forward faster. Clickbaiting people to watch 10 minutes videos for tiddly little bits of information is a colossal waste of potential there.

dredmorbius 5y ago
How are you using "cope" in this context?
- Aulig 5y ago
  Sounds like one of the modern colloquial definitions: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cope https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cope Tough to put in words really. Maybe it could be rephrased to "I found that he is trying to legitimize clickbait", however the second part of the sentence says that too.
  - _bohm 5y ago
    or maybe: "rationalizing his use of clickbait as a means of coping with the weight it places on his conscience"
    - Aulig 5y ago
      That's a great explanation, I agree with that. I couldnt put it into words that well :)
- newbamboo 5y ago
  Unreasonably.
- dnissley 5y ago
  cope = sour grapes
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  I mean as a coping mechanism for not admitting that clickbait is manipulation of humans. "But look it's working" is not an excuse
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Thanks. That's rather unclear and nonstandard, in my view.
antasvara 5y ago
Some of your criticism seems to be directed at video length and not a clickbaity title. If a video takes 10 minutes to tell me a single piece of information, the title isn't the issue with that video.
- infogulch 5y ago
  Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse here, but what if there's a human reason why 10m videos are popular. Maybe 10 minutes is just the minimum time needed to get across a non-trivial idea to a broad audience. Sure, the platform itself encourages that length implicitly but maybe that's not an arbitrary decision and is based on the human capacity to absorb information.
  - jrootabega 5y ago
    10 minutes is the original minimum video length youtube required before you could place midroll ads. It's now 8 minutes, but 10 is still a goal that many "creators" aim for. What it mostly results in is low-quality, low-information videos that are padded out to be just long enough to show you: - pre-roll ads - embedded sponsored content - plug for your patreon/other videos - reminder to like/subscribe/comment - a tiny nugget of actual content SOMETIMES - mid-roll ads - post-roll ads I agree that 10 minutes feels about right if you were actually trying to convey a good chunk of information in good faith, but that's just not what happens on youtube. Maybe 10 minutes was a good threshold for midroll ads for the same reason that it would have been a good threshold for quality videos. Videos like the linked one, while technically longer, just result in more and more mid-roll ads. In fact while attempting to watch this one, I got just past his embedded sponsorship plug, when youtube ambushed me with the "Ads in 3... 2... 1..." type of ad that makes it impossible to tell just how much of the video is compromised by ads before watching it.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      10-25 minutes or so seems like the sweet spot for a lot of podcasts, informational videos, presentations, and the like when they're genuinely trying to inform/entertain. It's hard to really communicate a lot of information or have a meaningful discussion in a shorter period of time unless it's very focused (how to...) and a lot of those would better be text and a photo. And a lot of hour long interviews etc. tend to feel like they go on too long.
epidemian 5y ago
Have you also found other videos by the author to be "10 minutes of tiddly little bits of information"? I think Veritasium makes some of the most valuable and informative videos out there. Definitely not the kind of channel that i would consider "baiting" with titles and then disappointing with the video content itself. His views on video titles' "clickbaitiness", given the state of affairs of Youtube recommendation algorithms and the "competition" for viewers' attention, seem pretty on point to me.
- gmiller123456 5y ago
  He specifically said in the video that he hasn't been doing this in the past, but plans to "get better at it". I think one of his videos that qualifies as pure clickbait is "Can a Wind-Powered Car Go Faster Than The Wind?". It was 20 minutes, and nearly completely devoid of any real information. Certainly not 20 minutes worth, and very different from the rest of his videos. It did spawn more videos about how the car actually worked that were worth watching.
  - 4ad 5y ago
    > It was 20 minutes, and nearly completely devoid of any real information. It's entertainment, not a scientific lecture. As entertainment, it contained far more information that the vast majority of competing entertainment. > and very different from the rest of his videos. I must disagree here, I think most of his videos contain very little information as well. Less than I would like, in any case. > It did spawn more videos about how the car actually worked that were worth watching. How is this not a good thing? It's great for people who actually want more information, and it's great for the creators who provide said information. It makes the creator community (I hate that term) healthy.
  - epidemian 5y ago
    I understood that he's been doing more clickbaity titles for the past year or two, but maybe i misunderstood. For the first video about the wind powered vehicle, yes i agree. It was more of a story and spectacle than any actual information. Still quite entertaining i think, but maybe disappointing if you wanted to learn something, which is usually the spirit of the channel.
infogulch 5y ago
This one is almost 20 minutes. Here's a histogram of video lengths of Veritasium videos over the last year: 3 videos 10m or less 8 videos from 11m-14m 11 videos from 15m-19m 5 videos from 20m-22m 1 video at 34m
noahtallen 5y ago
> to accelerate the access to relevant information so that the world can move forward faster. While I would love this to be true, we have to remember that so much of the internet is a business in our capitalist economy. To many YouTube channels (especially the big ones), the primary purpose of the title is to get someone to watch the video to make money. Sharing information is only a secondary purpose. This is true across basically every business. The primary purpose of anything is profit, and every other thing is secondary. This is why health care is difficult to privatize, as the primary purpose of profit is very easily at odds with the secondary purpose of health outcomes. I feel like I see this purpose thing come up all the time in different parts of businesses, and it really makes me wonder whether this system is sustainable. The YouTube channel is justified in writing a clickbait title, because other types of titles reduce profit. And because of the way our society and economy works, reducing profit is always a “bad” thing. You could say that with more profit, the creators could expand the business and provide even more value to their viewers. Maybe that’s true in this case, but that’s basically the whole reason clickbait exists. I’m not sure we should be that happy about it.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>I have found this video to be cope, I am not familiar with this phrase - is it a typo or is this just a bit of slang I have missed out on - is it a variant of this https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cope https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cope
- ryeights 5y ago
  Cope (noun, slang) is any thought used as a coping mechanism against an emotional stressor or perceived shortcoming. For example: Alice: I may be ugly, but at least I’m not superficial. Bob: Cope
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    I'm aware of this usage of cope, and I guess I might use it myself if the opportunity arose - it's just 'to be cope' seems a different usage.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  OP responds here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266767

dredmorbius 5y ago

How are you using "cope" in this context?

Aulig 5y ago
Sounds like one of the modern colloquial definitions: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cope https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cope Tough to put in words really. Maybe it could be rephrased to "I found that he is trying to legitimize clickbait", however the second part of the sentence says that too.
- _bohm 5y ago
  or maybe: "rationalizing his use of clickbait as a means of coping with the weight it places on his conscience"
  - Aulig 5y ago
    That's a great explanation, I agree with that. I couldnt put it into words that well :)
newbamboo 5y ago
Unreasonably.
dnissley 5y ago
cope = sour grapes
cblconfederate 5y ago
I mean as a coping mechanism for not admitting that clickbait is manipulation of humans. "But look it's working" is not an excuse
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Thanks. That's rather unclear and nonstandard, in my view.

antasvara 5y ago

Some of your criticism seems to be directed at video length and not a clickbaity title. If a video takes 10 minutes to tell me a single piece of information, the title isn't the issue with that video.

infogulch 5y ago
Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse here, but what if there's a human reason why 10m videos are popular. Maybe 10 minutes is just the minimum time needed to get across a non-trivial idea to a broad audience. Sure, the platform itself encourages that length implicitly but maybe that's not an arbitrary decision and is based on the human capacity to absorb information.
- jrootabega 5y ago
  10 minutes is the original minimum video length youtube required before you could place midroll ads. It's now 8 minutes, but 10 is still a goal that many "creators" aim for. What it mostly results in is low-quality, low-information videos that are padded out to be just long enough to show you: - pre-roll ads - embedded sponsored content - plug for your patreon/other videos - reminder to like/subscribe/comment - a tiny nugget of actual content SOMETIMES - mid-roll ads - post-roll ads I agree that 10 minutes feels about right if you were actually trying to convey a good chunk of information in good faith, but that's just not what happens on youtube. Maybe 10 minutes was a good threshold for midroll ads for the same reason that it would have been a good threshold for quality videos. Videos like the linked one, while technically longer, just result in more and more mid-roll ads. In fact while attempting to watch this one, I got just past his embedded sponsorship plug, when youtube ambushed me with the "Ads in 3... 2... 1..." type of ad that makes it impossible to tell just how much of the video is compromised by ads before watching it.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    10-25 minutes or so seems like the sweet spot for a lot of podcasts, informational videos, presentations, and the like when they're genuinely trying to inform/entertain. It's hard to really communicate a lot of information or have a meaningful discussion in a shorter period of time unless it's very focused (how to...) and a lot of those would better be text and a photo. And a lot of hour long interviews etc. tend to feel like they go on too long.

epidemian 5y ago

Have you also found other videos by the author to be "10 minutes of tiddly little bits of information"? I think Veritasium makes some of the most valuable and informative videos out there. Definitely not the kind of channel that i would consider "baiting" with titles and then disappointing with the video content itself. His views on video titles' "clickbaitiness", given the state of affairs of Youtube recommendation algorithms and the "competition" for viewers' attention, seem pretty on point to me.

gmiller123456 5y ago
He specifically said in the video that he hasn't been doing this in the past, but plans to "get better at it". I think one of his videos that qualifies as pure clickbait is "Can a Wind-Powered Car Go Faster Than The Wind?". It was 20 minutes, and nearly completely devoid of any real information. Certainly not 20 minutes worth, and very different from the rest of his videos. It did spawn more videos about how the car actually worked that were worth watching.
- 4ad 5y ago
  > It was 20 minutes, and nearly completely devoid of any real information. It's entertainment, not a scientific lecture. As entertainment, it contained far more information that the vast majority of competing entertainment. > and very different from the rest of his videos. I must disagree here, I think most of his videos contain very little information as well. Less than I would like, in any case. > It did spawn more videos about how the car actually worked that were worth watching. How is this not a good thing? It's great for people who actually want more information, and it's great for the creators who provide said information. It makes the creator community (I hate that term) healthy.
- epidemian 5y ago
  I understood that he's been doing more clickbaity titles for the past year or two, but maybe i misunderstood. For the first video about the wind powered vehicle, yes i agree. It was more of a story and spectacle than any actual information. Still quite entertaining i think, but maybe disappointing if you wanted to learn something, which is usually the spirit of the channel.

infogulch 5y ago

This one is almost 20 minutes. Here's a histogram of video lengths of Veritasium videos over the last year: 3 videos 10m or less 8 videos from 11m-14m 11 videos from 15m-19m 5 videos from 20m-22m 1 video at 34m

noahtallen 5y ago

> to accelerate the access to relevant information so that the world can move forward faster. While I would love this to be true, we have to remember that so much of the internet is a business in our capitalist economy. To many YouTube channels (especially the big ones), the primary purpose of the title is to get someone to watch the video to make money. Sharing information is only a secondary purpose. This is true across basically every business. The primary purpose of anything is profit, and every other thing is secondary. This is why health care is difficult to privatize, as the primary purpose of profit is very easily at odds with the secondary purpose of health outcomes. I feel like I see this purpose thing come up all the time in different parts of businesses, and it really makes me wonder whether this system is sustainable. The YouTube channel is justified in writing a clickbait title, because other types of titles reduce profit. And because of the way our society and economy works, reducing profit is always a “bad” thing. You could say that with more profit, the creators could expand the business and provide even more value to their viewers. Maybe that’s true in this case, but that’s basically the whole reason clickbait exists. I’m not sure we should be that happy about it.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>I have found this video to be cope, I am not familiar with this phrase - is it a typo or is this just a bit of slang I have missed out on - is it a variant of this https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cope https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cope

ryeights 5y ago
Cope (noun, slang) is any thought used as a coping mechanism against an emotional stressor or perceived shortcoming. For example: Alice: I may be ugly, but at least I’m not superficial. Bob: Cope
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  I'm aware of this usage of cope, and I guess I might use it myself if the opportunity arose - it's just 'to be cope' seems a different usage.
dredmorbius 5y ago
OP responds here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266767