3 ms·

Yes, doctors, nurses, and administrators hold the entire country’s health hostage for maximal cash.

hirako2000 5y ago
It just can't be that simple. Since there is a freer health market in the US than say in France, the staff costs would have come down with competition. I think what we have there is a very expensive medical school system. And things snow ball. Especially given a doctor role. A doctor studies and goes through practical training a good 8 years. That's college/uni + health center fees that stack up with interest over a long period of time. Doc then needs to make a living in accordance to his past effort, more than a living, get enough to earn the status he deserves. Now the thing is, taxes accounts for a lot given the high band income. So we could say the doctors are earning too much, but reality is 70% of their gross income goes to multiple tax tiers. 1/ income tax 2/ debt pay back 3/ insurer, continous training fees and other things that are sort of imposed on medical professional. I'm not a doctor, but I couldn't figure out how even a surgeon could justify such high pay, in the million dollar per year in many US positions. But looking comprehensively as the taxes imposed on them, everything makes sense, all they have left is 200k per year. Cashiers and other clerks earn a quarter this amount, but that's for any less than what doctors are making not many would go through all these hops and be privileged enough to even take the risk of such a financial investment. The argument that many doctors come from wealthy families doesn't invalidate the simple fact debt still exists and somehow needs to be paid back, and in most cases it does get paid back. Solution? Get rid of income taxes, make medical schools optional to practice, just make exams open to any participant, affordable education channels will pop up by themselves. Don't regulate medical malpractice, practicians should rather have their lives ruined instead, it's actually a stronger incentive to proper practice than having a big insurer paying the millions in settlement cases. The medical sector is far more tied to other industries and regulating costs than it looks. I only included 3 obvious contributors to high staff cost, there are numerous supply chains to look at to also account for other spendings that seem unavoidable but in reality pointless for health care.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > Since there is a freer health market in the US than say in France, the staff costs would have come down with competition. "When reality doesn't confirm your axioms, double down on the axioms" puts the fundamentalist in market fundamentalism.
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    That's not fundamentalist market thoughts. The argument is against free market rules . Sorry if that wasn't made clear to you. The premises are that in a rather laissez faire market, prices are obscured and tend on the over profiting side. With competition not actually leading to the outcome one would expect in a free market. One pays 100 bucks,another pays 700 bucks. And an RMI shot ( decades old tech ) still costs thousands of dollars. Edit: can't write proper English with auto correct.
- pySSK 5y ago
  > Solution? Get rid of income taxes, make medical schools optional to practice, just make exams open to any participant, affordable education channels will pop up by themselves. Don't regulate medical malpractice, practicians should rather have their lives ruined instead, it's actually a stronger incentive to proper practice than having a big insurer paying the millions in settlement cases. All those make society worse. Alternatively: - subsidize or cap education fees so that students don’t go into crushing debt - reduce inefficiencies resulting from a for profit insurance system by switching to a single payer social insurance system - cap malpractice claims and put in better controls against frivolous lawsuits - doing all this also lower doctors wages
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    Subsidising? See what happens when we do. And it doesn't mean nobody pays, tax payers. And that would make the education and health sectors even worse than they are. We already have armies of people taking on studies that are dead ends, and medical services that are pure money making scams. You are advocating for more people being forced to contribute for unjustified expenses. It doesn't need to be argumented against anyway, the economy cannot take much more tax levels, we are probably defaulting on paying taxes we are asked to pay at this point.

hirako2000 5y ago

It just can't be that simple. Since there is a freer health market in the US than say in France, the staff costs would have come down with competition. I think what we have there is a very expensive medical school system. And things snow ball. Especially given a doctor role. A doctor studies and goes through practical training a good 8 years. That's college/uni + health center fees that stack up with interest over a long period of time. Doc then needs to make a living in accordance to his past effort, more than a living, get enough to earn the status he deserves. Now the thing is, taxes accounts for a lot given the high band income. So we could say the doctors are earning too much, but reality is 70% of their gross income goes to multiple tax tiers. 1/ income tax 2/ debt pay back 3/ insurer, continous training fees and other things that are sort of imposed on medical professional. I'm not a doctor, but I couldn't figure out how even a surgeon could justify such high pay, in the million dollar per year in many US positions. But looking comprehensively as the taxes imposed on them, everything makes sense, all they have left is 200k per year. Cashiers and other clerks earn a quarter this amount, but that's for any less than what doctors are making not many would go through all these hops and be privileged enough to even take the risk of such a financial investment. The argument that many doctors come from wealthy families doesn't invalidate the simple fact debt still exists and somehow needs to be paid back, and in most cases it does get paid back. Solution? Get rid of income taxes, make medical schools optional to practice, just make exams open to any participant, affordable education channels will pop up by themselves. Don't regulate medical malpractice, practicians should rather have their lives ruined instead, it's actually a stronger incentive to proper practice than having a big insurer paying the millions in settlement cases. The medical sector is far more tied to other industries and regulating costs than it looks. I only included 3 obvious contributors to high staff cost, there are numerous supply chains to look at to also account for other spendings that seem unavoidable but in reality pointless for health care.

throwawaygh 5y ago
> Since there is a freer health market in the US than say in France, the staff costs would have come down with competition. "When reality doesn't confirm your axioms, double down on the axioms" puts the fundamentalist in market fundamentalism.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  That's not fundamentalist market thoughts. The argument is against free market rules . Sorry if that wasn't made clear to you. The premises are that in a rather laissez faire market, prices are obscured and tend on the over profiting side. With competition not actually leading to the outcome one would expect in a free market. One pays 100 bucks,another pays 700 bucks. And an RMI shot ( decades old tech ) still costs thousands of dollars. Edit: can't write proper English with auto correct.
pySSK 5y ago
> Solution? Get rid of income taxes, make medical schools optional to practice, just make exams open to any participant, affordable education channels will pop up by themselves. Don't regulate medical malpractice, practicians should rather have their lives ruined instead, it's actually a stronger incentive to proper practice than having a big insurer paying the millions in settlement cases. All those make society worse. Alternatively: - subsidize or cap education fees so that students don’t go into crushing debt - reduce inefficiencies resulting from a for profit insurance system by switching to a single payer social insurance system - cap malpractice claims and put in better controls against frivolous lawsuits - doing all this also lower doctors wages
- hirako2000 5y ago
  Subsidising? See what happens when we do. And it doesn't mean nobody pays, tax payers. And that would make the education and health sectors even worse than they are. We already have armies of people taking on studies that are dead ends, and medical services that are pure money making scams. You are advocating for more people being forced to contribute for unjustified expenses. It doesn't need to be argumented against anyway, the economy cannot take much more tax levels, we are probably defaulting on paying taxes we are asked to pay at this point.