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So i kind of agree but wonder if it is usable as a means of storage of energy. Electricity is easy to generate but hard to store, we have done a great job of fi

by verelo 5y ago

So i kind of agree but wonder if it is usable as a means of storage of energy. Electricity is easy to generate but hard to store, we have done a great job of figuring out how to safely store gases. Could we not generate electricity in areas where it’s not needed and simply ship in the hydrogen? I feel like it’s a useful tool in the journey of replaying a fossil fuel economy.

bayindirh 5y ago
Isn't hydrogen is one of the hardest gases to store, and seeps out of almost everything due to being the tiniest atom/molecule of all?
- kuschku 5y ago
  You can turn hydrogen into methane in an exothermic way, which you can store very easily.
  - beervirus 5y ago
    That completely defeats the purpose of using hydrogen instead of methane.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      As long as it isn't adding fossil carbon, it seems fine to me.
      - beervirus 5y ago
        Where would the carbon come from that turns hydrogen into methane? It’s not being sucked out of the air.
        masklinn 5y ago
        > It’s not being sucked out of the air. It could be if it comes from wood or charcoal (though that seems unlikely).
      - Lio 5y ago
        Methane is reputedly much worse for global warming than CO2 though. I’ve heard 4x worse before. If that’s true then inevitable leaks of unburnt methane would not be a good thing at all.
        leoedin 5y ago
        It is, but only for a short time - I think 9 years or so. It's broken down in the atmosphere into CO2 and water.
        mech422 5y ago
        So its worse the C02 for 9 years... And then _becomes_ CO2 ? Not seeing how this is a win?
        leoedin 5y ago
        As long as the carbon contained in that methane comes from environmental carbon, rather than fossil carbon, the net effect on CO2 levels is 0. If a tree absorbs CO2 to grow, dies, gives off methane and that methane eventually turns back into CO2, it's not a problem. That's just the natural carbon cycle. The problem is that we're constantly injecting more carbon from deep underground into that carbon cycle. It's why biofuels are essentially carbon neutral.
  - hannob 5y ago
    Which is very energy intensive, as you need to capture CO2 for this to work. And it adds the problem of methane leakages (methane itself is a powerful greenhouse gas). The most promising chemical to use as a hydrogen carrier is ammonia. It has its problems, too, but it doesn't contain carbon, which is a huge bonus.
- verelo 5y ago
  Yeah i have read this before. I was thinking a big opportunity of coastal communities would be hydrogen from electrolysis but that lead to the reading about molocule size…nothing is easy.
adrianN 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas is a fairly popular proposal for seasonal storage. You probably want to turn the hydrogen to Methane to make it easier to store.

by verelo 5y ago

bayindirh 5y ago

Isn't hydrogen is one of the hardest gases to store, and seeps out of almost everything due to being the tiniest atom/molecule of all?

kuschku 5y ago
You can turn hydrogen into methane in an exothermic way, which you can store very easily.
- beervirus 5y ago
  That completely defeats the purpose of using hydrogen instead of methane.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    As long as it isn't adding fossil carbon, it seems fine to me.
    - beervirus 5y ago
      Where would the carbon come from that turns hydrogen into methane? It’s not being sucked out of the air.
      - masklinn 5y ago
        > It’s not being sucked out of the air. It could be if it comes from wood or charcoal (though that seems unlikely).
    - Lio 5y ago
      Methane is reputedly much worse for global warming than CO2 though. I’ve heard 4x worse before. If that’s true then inevitable leaks of unburnt methane would not be a good thing at all.
      - leoedin 5y ago
        It is, but only for a short time - I think 9 years or so. It's broken down in the atmosphere into CO2 and water.
        mech422 5y ago
        So its worse the C02 for 9 years... And then _becomes_ CO2 ? Not seeing how this is a win?
        leoedin 5y ago
        As long as the carbon contained in that methane comes from environmental carbon, rather than fossil carbon, the net effect on CO2 levels is 0. If a tree absorbs CO2 to grow, dies, gives off methane and that methane eventually turns back into CO2, it's not a problem. That's just the natural carbon cycle. The problem is that we're constantly injecting more carbon from deep underground into that carbon cycle. It's why biofuels are essentially carbon neutral.
- hannob 5y ago
  Which is very energy intensive, as you need to capture CO2 for this to work. And it adds the problem of methane leakages (methane itself is a powerful greenhouse gas). The most promising chemical to use as a hydrogen carrier is ammonia. It has its problems, too, but it doesn't contain carbon, which is a huge bonus.
verelo 5y ago
Yeah i have read this before. I was thinking a big opportunity of coastal communities would be hydrogen from electrolysis but that lead to the reading about molocule size…nothing is easy.

adrianN 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas is a fairly popular proposal for seasonal storage. You probably want to turn the hydrogen to Methane to make it easier to store.