4 ms·

It’s just so weird we’re supposed to get hydrogen from petroleum sources. It’s not like you can’t split it from water (with solar providing the energy). Everyon

It’s just so weird we’re supposed to get hydrogen from petroleum sources. It’s not like you can’t split it from water (with solar providing the energy). Everyone learns that in elementary school chemistry. Hydrogen doesn’t seem like a good idea for cars, too much dispersed infrastructure that needs to be built, that seems even more difficult to pull off than electric charging. But for airplanes, it might make more sense.

dogma1138 5y ago
You can but it costs much more, this is why 95% of current hydrogen is produced from natural gas and hydrocarbons.
- brightball 5y ago
  If you’re doing that, isn’t it better to just use natural gas directly?
  - WJW 5y ago
    That depends on what you need the hydrogen for. If you want to burn it in a turbine or use it in a fuel cell then yes, using natural gas directly is more efficient. OTOH, using hydrogen as a feedstock for chemical processes often can't be replaced directly with natural gas.
  - digianarchist 5y ago
    Wouldn't it be easier for carbon capture to occur when producing hydrogen and just let hydrogen consuming sources output water?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
_huayra_ 5y ago
iirc one main difficulty besides electricity is the cathode or anode material, as on industrial scale I think they may need to be replaced due to corrosion or something (again, not entirely sure). However, we really ought to solve that problem and then put hydrogen stations in sunny / windy places that just make the gas when electricity is available there. Seems like a no-brainer for the middle east with copious amounts of sun year round.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  There are many other challenges, like the fact that you need very pure water which if you use salt water you need to desalinate it first and make sure it has little to no impurities. Then you need to both select and engineer the structure of your electrodes to maximize surface area whilst allowing for easy H2 extraction, you need to match your electrolyte material to your electrodes as well as figure out how to extract the other byproducts without them gunking your setup until something goes boom. There is some research into autoionization of water but that has its own massive engineering challenges you need quite high temperatures or pressure to make that even remotely feasible and that process needs to be very controlled because you don’t want free hydrogen and oxygen floating around.
  - rob_c 5y ago
    A lot of which we can do at scale for H3 extraction. Is just the economics of it on the private sector.
guerrilla 5y ago
> elementary school chemistry. You mean elementary chemistry or school chemistry? Who has chemistry in elementary school?
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>Who has chemistry in elementary school? Uhm, I'd hope everone? Here in Poland you take chemistry in elementary school, starting in year 4(so at 10-11 years of age).
  - Aulig 5y ago
    In Germany you take chemistry from year 7 onwards usually.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      Elementary school means up to years 1 to 4 or 6 [1]. It ends at age 11-12 or so[2]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#School_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#School_ye... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_Unit...
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    You start studying chemistry before 12 years old? Around 11-12 is when elementary school ends [1]. I don't think I've ever heard of that in California and they don't usually start until high school in Sweden either [2]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_Unit... 2. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_A https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_A
xyzzy21 5y ago
It's about costs: both energy and economic. Those are BOTH non-negotiable facts. I agree: there are NICHES where hydrogen could be right. NICHES!!! Not everything or even most cases.

dogma1138 5y ago

You can but it costs much more, this is why 95% of current hydrogen is produced from natural gas and hydrocarbons.

brightball 5y ago
If you’re doing that, isn’t it better to just use natural gas directly?
- WJW 5y ago
  That depends on what you need the hydrogen for. If you want to burn it in a turbine or use it in a fuel cell then yes, using natural gas directly is more efficient. OTOH, using hydrogen as a feedstock for chemical processes often can't be replaced directly with natural gas.
- digianarchist 5y ago
  Wouldn't it be easier for carbon capture to occur when producing hydrogen and just let hydrogen consuming sources output water?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

_huayra_ 5y ago

iirc one main difficulty besides electricity is the cathode or anode material, as on industrial scale I think they may need to be replaced due to corrosion or something (again, not entirely sure). However, we really ought to solve that problem and then put hydrogen stations in sunny / windy places that just make the gas when electricity is available there. Seems like a no-brainer for the middle east with copious amounts of sun year round.

dogma1138 5y ago
There are many other challenges, like the fact that you need very pure water which if you use salt water you need to desalinate it first and make sure it has little to no impurities. Then you need to both select and engineer the structure of your electrodes to maximize surface area whilst allowing for easy H2 extraction, you need to match your electrolyte material to your electrodes as well as figure out how to extract the other byproducts without them gunking your setup until something goes boom. There is some research into autoionization of water but that has its own massive engineering challenges you need quite high temperatures or pressure to make that even remotely feasible and that process needs to be very controlled because you don’t want free hydrogen and oxygen floating around.
- rob_c 5y ago
  A lot of which we can do at scale for H3 extraction. Is just the economics of it on the private sector.

guerrilla 5y ago

> elementary school chemistry. You mean elementary chemistry or school chemistry? Who has chemistry in elementary school?

gambiting 5y ago
>>Who has chemistry in elementary school? Uhm, I'd hope everone? Here in Poland you take chemistry in elementary school, starting in year 4(so at 10-11 years of age).
- Aulig 5y ago
  In Germany you take chemistry from year 7 onwards usually.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    Elementary school means up to years 1 to 4 or 6 [1]. It ends at age 11-12 or so[2]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#School_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#School_ye... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_Unit...
- guerrilla 5y ago
  You start studying chemistry before 12 years old? Around 11-12 is when elementary school ends [1]. I don't think I've ever heard of that in California and they don't usually start until high school in Sweden either [2]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_schools_in_the_Unit... 2. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_A https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_A

xyzzy21 5y ago

It's about costs: both energy and economic. Those are BOTH non-negotiable facts. I agree: there are NICHES where hydrogen could be right. NICHES!!! Not everything or even most cases.