6 ms·

Same here. Can I have my paycheck in Swiss Francs?

by tibbon 15y ago

burgerbrain 15y ago
Nice that you bring that up. Why can't it work like that? Sure the burrito lunch truck guy would look at me kind of funny if I tried to pay him that way, but that is what we have exchange rates for. Why isn't it a thing that I work out with my employer what currency I want to be paid in? I don't buy all the mumbo jumbo about different economies rising and falling in different geographic regions and whatnot either. If that were the real reason then we should have seperate currencies for the west, middle, and east areas of the US. Hell, each city should have their own currency in that case, why should Detroit's shittyness drag down the economies of cities thousands of miles away? Geography is a terribly abstract concept in this world where communication is for all intents and purposes instant and I can get packages to anyone regardless of location in less than 24 hours. Companies paying people with US currency just because that particular building happens to be located in the US is just absurd if you think about it.
- Eliezer 15y ago
  If your employer receives revenue in US dollars, and you pay your expenses in US dollars, committing to pay in Swiss francs adds volatility from both their perspective and yours. This is the essential bar to adoption of any new currency.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    My employer happens to receive revenue in numerous currencies. I do think that it should be up to the employer which currencies they want to offer payment in, but I really think that it should be something that is legal (is it not? I don't know) and to a certain degree expected.
    - lsc 15y ago
      I'm pretty sure that it's legal for me to pay you in pesos, franks, shekels or whatever else you and i find mutually agreeable. Note, though, that this does not get me out of paying payroll taxes in dollars or you out of paying your income taxes in dollars; I've still gotta figure your payroll taxes based on the value of whatever I'm giving you in dollars, and then pay that to the government in dollars. This does make doing so rather a lot more complex; I mean, do you pay taxes based on the value of the foreign coin in dollars when you are paid? at the end of the year? etc, etc. It'd get complicated pretty fast, so it's usually easiest for a business to operate in a main currency, and if the employee wants franks or what have you, the employee can go buy them after they get paid in whatever the standard currency is.
- lukesandberg 15y ago
  Currency itself is an abstract concept. There are many reasons currencies are associated with nations (instead of just cities or other smaller economic regions). The most important reason is that currencies are under the control of some sort of central bank (the FED in the US the ECB in the eurozone). Because the fed controls the supply of money and the fed is a national institutions it makes sense that the fed would be attempting to do what it thinks is best for the nation (and therefore the people living in that nation). One of the major reasons currencies fluctuate between different nations is due to changes in the money supply (which is obviously related to economic production and the intervention of the fed). So having currencies associated with sovereign states makes a lot of sense.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    The concept of nations is a relic though. We're not under threat of roaming Hun tribes or whatnot. The exclusive modern purpose of a nation seems to be to have a currency, and the purpose of the nationally administered currency seems to be to maintain the nation... Seems terribly circular to me. If we admit that geographically defined nations are silly then I don't see any reason why we can't just let people, businesses, or perhaps even entire cities, choose which currency they wish to subscribe to.
    - justincormack 15y ago
      They do when it matters. Many countries at various times have used the dollar as a non official but widespread currency, eg much of south america, and Russia.
    - lukesandberg 15y ago
      "The exclusive modern purpose of a nation seems to be to have a currency" That is incorrect. The purpose of a nation is manifold, nations provide a lot more than just a currency for example: rule of law, public services (roads, fire service), judicial system, safety regulations, an open and efficient marketplace. Currency is a means to some of these ends not a purpose in and of itself. Now like everything else in life not all of these tasks are always well executed and thats why governments do things like change laws and policies and provide for mechanisms such as the courts and a free press. I believe you are taking a very narrow view of what a nation is and what it (strives) to provide.
- reedlaw 15y ago
  You could simply invest your US income in the currency exchange market (FX or Forex).
  - mdda 15y ago
    Or buy a currency-linked ETF ('FXF' for instance).
- biot 15y ago
  It can. Employment is a negotiation like any other. If you're irreplaceable you can demand to be paid in Swiss Francs, blue M&Ms, or organic saffron if you so desire. However, if you're not that unique of a snowflake your employer will see no reason to jump through hoops and incur the extra costs of meeting your demands.
rdl 15y ago
Essentially, yes. In the world of ~low friction (fast, low cost) financial transactions and liquid markets, you should be able to separate out the three roles of money: medium of exchange, store of value, and unit of account. Basically no one keeps substantial amounts of wealth in USD directly as a store of value; you have a bunch of more related or less related assets in an account (money market, treasury securities being more related; equity in foreign businesses with little exposure to the USA being less related). Medium of exchange usually is fairly instant; you can liquidate money market automatically to pay your debit card/credit card/checking/wire transactions. This could easily be anything mutually agreed by both parties in a transaction, but is almost always USD, unless it's conducted entirely within a foreign currency zone. A Japanese company paying a Chinese company is likely to use USD for the exchange, even. Unit of account is the tricky one. With the right UI skin over your bank account, you should be able to display your wealth in arbitrary units ("houses", Audi A4s, kilos of cocaine, etc.) based on current exchange rates. You could also have a browser hack which replaces USD prices in pages with EUR or Cocaine-kg prices.

Same here. Can I have my paycheck in Swiss Francs?

by tibbon 15y ago

Same here. Can I have my paycheck in Swiss Francs?

Nice that you bring that up. Why can't it work like that? Sure the burrito lunch truck guy would look at me kind of funny if I tried to pay him that way, but that is what we have exchange rates for. Why isn't it a thing that I work out with my employer what currency I want to be paid in? I don't buy all the mumbo jumbo about different economies rising and falling in different geographic regions and whatnot either. If that were the real reason then we should have seperate currencies for the west, middle, and east areas of the US. Hell, each city should have their own currency in that case, why should Detroit's shittyness drag down the economies of cities thousands of miles away? Geography is a terribly abstract concept in this world where communication is for all intents and purposes instant and I can get packages to anyone regardless of location in less than 24 hours. Companies paying people with US currency just because that particular building happens to be located in the US is just absurd if you think about it.

Eliezer 15y ago
If your employer receives revenue in US dollars, and you pay your expenses in US dollars, committing to pay in Swiss francs adds volatility from both their perspective and yours. This is the essential bar to adoption of any new currency.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  My employer happens to receive revenue in numerous currencies. I do think that it should be up to the employer which currencies they want to offer payment in, but I really think that it should be something that is legal (is it not? I don't know) and to a certain degree expected.
  - lsc 15y ago
    I'm pretty sure that it's legal for me to pay you in pesos, franks, shekels or whatever else you and i find mutually agreeable. Note, though, that this does not get me out of paying payroll taxes in dollars or you out of paying your income taxes in dollars; I've still gotta figure your payroll taxes based on the value of whatever I'm giving you in dollars, and then pay that to the government in dollars. This does make doing so rather a lot more complex; I mean, do you pay taxes based on the value of the foreign coin in dollars when you are paid? at the end of the year? etc, etc. It'd get complicated pretty fast, so it's usually easiest for a business to operate in a main currency, and if the employee wants franks or what have you, the employee can go buy them after they get paid in whatever the standard currency is.
lukesandberg 15y ago
Currency itself is an abstract concept. There are many reasons currencies are associated with nations (instead of just cities or other smaller economic regions). The most important reason is that currencies are under the control of some sort of central bank (the FED in the US the ECB in the eurozone). Because the fed controls the supply of money and the fed is a national institutions it makes sense that the fed would be attempting to do what it thinks is best for the nation (and therefore the people living in that nation). One of the major reasons currencies fluctuate between different nations is due to changes in the money supply (which is obviously related to economic production and the intervention of the fed). So having currencies associated with sovereign states makes a lot of sense.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  The concept of nations is a relic though. We're not under threat of roaming Hun tribes or whatnot. The exclusive modern purpose of a nation seems to be to have a currency, and the purpose of the nationally administered currency seems to be to maintain the nation... Seems terribly circular to me. If we admit that geographically defined nations are silly then I don't see any reason why we can't just let people, businesses, or perhaps even entire cities, choose which currency they wish to subscribe to.
  - justincormack 15y ago
    They do when it matters. Many countries at various times have used the dollar as a non official but widespread currency, eg much of south america, and Russia.
  - lukesandberg 15y ago
    "The exclusive modern purpose of a nation seems to be to have a currency" That is incorrect. The purpose of a nation is manifold, nations provide a lot more than just a currency for example: rule of law, public services (roads, fire service), judicial system, safety regulations, an open and efficient marketplace. Currency is a means to some of these ends not a purpose in and of itself. Now like everything else in life not all of these tasks are always well executed and thats why governments do things like change laws and policies and provide for mechanisms such as the courts and a free press. I believe you are taking a very narrow view of what a nation is and what it (strives) to provide.
reedlaw 15y ago
You could simply invest your US income in the currency exchange market (FX or Forex).
- mdda 15y ago
  Or buy a currency-linked ETF ('FXF' for instance).
biot 15y ago
It can. Employment is a negotiation like any other. If you're irreplaceable you can demand to be paid in Swiss Francs, blue M&Ms, or organic saffron if you so desire. However, if you're not that unique of a snowflake your employer will see no reason to jump through hoops and incur the extra costs of meeting your demands.

rdl 15y ago

Essentially, yes. In the world of ~low friction (fast, low cost) financial transactions and liquid markets, you should be able to separate out the three roles of money: medium of exchange, store of value, and unit of account. Basically no one keeps substantial amounts of wealth in USD directly as a store of value; you have a bunch of more related or less related assets in an account (money market, treasury securities being more related; equity in foreign businesses with little exposure to the USA being less related). Medium of exchange usually is fairly instant; you can liquidate money market automatically to pay your debit card/credit card/checking/wire transactions. This could easily be anything mutually agreed by both parties in a transaction, but is almost always USD, unless it's conducted entirely within a foreign currency zone. A Japanese company paying a Chinese company is likely to use USD for the exchange, even. Unit of account is the tricky one. With the right UI skin over your bank account, you should be able to display your wealth in arbitrary units ("houses", Audi A4s, kilos of cocaine, etc.) based on current exchange rates. You could also have a browser hack which replaces USD prices in pages with EUR or Cocaine-kg prices.