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I'm certain 99% of those who switch to Android over this recent drama will un-ironically backup their photos in Google Cloud. Which, FYI, Google already does th

by BluSyn 5y ago

I'm certain 99% of those who switch to Android over this recent drama will un-ironically backup their photos in Google Cloud. Which, FYI, Google already does the same thing Apple is proposing, and has been for years.

cageface 5y ago
The concern is not as much about what this system does today as it is what it could easily expand to do tomorrow. A list of banned content that lives on your phone sets a new and alarming precedent.
- BluSyn 5y ago
  The content isn't banned from the phone, just iCloud. A list of banned content already exists on Facebook servers, and we have no way of auditing if that list only includes CP. Where's all the outrage over that?
  - cageface 5y ago
    Because Apple is one boolean flag away from total on-device surveillance of your phone. In the past they've pushed back on this kind of thing because they said they'd have to build new capabilities into iOS to allow it. Now it's just a matter of policy and Apple has a track record of bending policies to suit various jurisdictions.
    - BluSyn 5y ago
      If you actually read the white paper on Apple's CSAM system, you'd know it is far more than just a boolean flag away. The system was specifically designed to prevent the kind of abuse everyone is worried about. I've been looking into the system deeply, and I fail to see how it could be co-opted for nefarious purposes without a complete redesign. Even in the most optimal attacks setup by a security researcher, I can't see how it gets anywhere near the worst-case scenario. The worry seems to boil down to; "they could CHANGE it in the future". If the concern is about the potential for a future system, then such concerns are infinite, since infinite new systems could always be proposed or deployed. I would rather conserve my outrage for that moment, rather than be the boy who cried wolf. Though this certainly isn't an argument for apathy. I think the amount of push-back Apple is getting is probably healthy, even if it's hyperbolic.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > Because Apple is one boolean flag away from total on-device surveillance of your phone. This is simply not true. I have to assume you know that.
BluSyn 5y ago
I've heard all the arguments. I've had this conversation 10 times now, I already know what all the replies will say. I'll save you all the time, you can downvote me here. Here's how the conversation goes: Android User: "With Android I could just turn off Google Cloud" iOS User: "Apple also only scans as part of iCloud upload process also. So just disable iCloud Photos" Android User: "But that's a slippery slope! They COULD scan all content of the phone with no effort!" iOS User: "But they're not currently, and don't plan to. Doing it locally makes it some-what auditable. Also their system as designed would only work for data uploaded to iCloud." Android User: "So you TRUST Apple to just not add that capability later!? What if a government forces them to?" iOS User: "So you trust Google not to aswell? If any Government forces Apple to add this on-device, they would certainly require the same of Android" Android User: "But Apple COULD add it more easily, because this is clearly a backdoor!" iOS User: "I don't think that word means what you think it means"

by BluSyn 5y ago

cageface 5y ago

The concern is not as much about what this system does today as it is what it could easily expand to do tomorrow. A list of banned content that lives on your phone sets a new and alarming precedent.

BluSyn 5y ago
The content isn't banned from the phone, just iCloud. A list of banned content already exists on Facebook servers, and we have no way of auditing if that list only includes CP. Where's all the outrage over that?
- cageface 5y ago
  Because Apple is one boolean flag away from total on-device surveillance of your phone. In the past they've pushed back on this kind of thing because they said they'd have to build new capabilities into iOS to allow it. Now it's just a matter of policy and Apple has a track record of bending policies to suit various jurisdictions.
  - BluSyn 5y ago
    If you actually read the white paper on Apple's CSAM system, you'd know it is far more than just a boolean flag away. The system was specifically designed to prevent the kind of abuse everyone is worried about. I've been looking into the system deeply, and I fail to see how it could be co-opted for nefarious purposes without a complete redesign. Even in the most optimal attacks setup by a security researcher, I can't see how it gets anywhere near the worst-case scenario. The worry seems to boil down to; "they could CHANGE it in the future". If the concern is about the potential for a future system, then such concerns are infinite, since infinite new systems could always be proposed or deployed. I would rather conserve my outrage for that moment, rather than be the boy who cried wolf. Though this certainly isn't an argument for apathy. I think the amount of push-back Apple is getting is probably healthy, even if it's hyperbolic.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > Because Apple is one boolean flag away from total on-device surveillance of your phone. This is simply not true. I have to assume you know that.

BluSyn 5y ago

I've heard all the arguments. I've had this conversation 10 times now, I already know what all the replies will say. I'll save you all the time, you can downvote me here. Here's how the conversation goes: Android User: "With Android I could just turn off Google Cloud" iOS User: "Apple also only scans as part of iCloud upload process also. So just disable iCloud Photos" Android User: "But that's a slippery slope! They COULD scan all content of the phone with no effort!" iOS User: "But they're not currently, and don't plan to. Doing it locally makes it some-what auditable. Also their system as designed would only work for data uploaded to iCloud." Android User: "So you TRUST Apple to just not add that capability later!? What if a government forces them to?" iOS User: "So you trust Google not to aswell? If any Government forces Apple to add this on-device, they would certainly require the same of Android" Android User: "But Apple COULD add it more easily, because this is clearly a backdoor!" iOS User: "I don't think that word means what you think it means"