6 ms·

I think a lot about our framing and I know for sure we haven't nailed it yet. It's fair to say your avg HN reader is very different to your avg American. For e

I think a lot about our framing and I know for sure we haven't nailed it yet. It's fair to say your avg HN reader is very different to your avg American. For example, you seem already somewhat clued up about Semaglutide. You're likely interested in the biology behind it, and probably aren't afraid to parse the journal article about it. I really wanna emphasize how different this is to your avg American. So it's more my bad for not tailoring our language enough for a HN post.

lkrubner 5y ago
I assume you've heard the advice that small startups should start in a niche and then expand towards the wider markets? Have you thought about initially focusing on Hacker News types, the types who read up on the technical documentation behind a drug? You've probably heard the story about Head & Shoulders shampoo? This is taught in a lot of marketing classes. The year it launched there were other shampoos launching that also included selenium disulfide and piroctone olamine and therefore could have sold themselves as anti-dandruff shampoo, but the other shampoos instead went after the general market and they almost all failed. Head & Shoulders started with a niche and eventually became a giant: "By 1982, it was the "number one brand" of shampoo, and it was noted that "No one hair care brand gets so many ad dollars as Head & Shoulders, a twenty year old brand, and no other brand matches its sales", despite it being a "medicated" shampoo." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_%26_Shoulders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_%26_Shoulders
- rich-cartwright 5y ago
  Hadn't heard about H&S. Will give it more of a think about best early adopters.
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    As someone who knows nothing about Semaglutide and is an HN type, I can tell you that anecdotally, marketing yourself as a breakthrough medicinal weight loss solution sounds very similar to packaging found on gas station counters. Ephedrine was also a breakthrough weight loss treatment...until it wasn't...
    - rich-cartwright 5y ago
      Helpful to know. Thank you.
noduerme 5y ago
Consider hacker mentality. You have a complex system that's not functioning the way it should. Do you drill to the root problem or just patch it temporarily? Weight gain is a problem, and the possible environmental contaminants and other causes behind society-wide weight gain are of interest as a big problem to solve. Workaround hacks like producing more insulin don't drill into the root cause. My first impulse (and probably that of most people here) is to identify what is being sold and then read what's known about the biological pathways it leverages. Not that we wouldn't all mind being fitter. But some argument needs to be made that altering basic cellular biochemistry for up-to 15% weigh loss has a risk/reward profile better than seeking root causes and addressing those, which any coder worth their salt would try to do first.
- rich-cartwright 5y ago
  Noted. For reference, I've very much tried to design Fella to tackle all the root causes of obesity, which vary person to person: metabolic condition, stress, sleep, exercise, food types & volume, and hormone imbalances.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    Beyond personal causes like metabolism or diet, there've been some fascinating discussions here in the past few months about why technologically advanced societies seem to have an exponential obesity problem starting around 1980, relative to other cultures that exercise less and take in more calories. I can't find the thread. But it definitely bears consideration. I think the view would be that hacking your way partially out of a problem isn't necessarily bad, but we've seen decades of data used to incorrectly imply one chain of causality or another and there's a larger problem to solve than a drug or a tummy tuck can tackle.
    - rich-cartwright 5y ago
      Yep more research being done on the hormone imbalance side. Nascent area though.
    - 5y ago
notjulianjaynes 5y ago
If your cagey about whats in your pill my gut reaction is it either doesnt work or youre overcharging for it. I am average American.
- rich-cartwright 5y ago
  Not at all trying to be cagey, and also not our pill. The main paper is here for more info about the most notable medication: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183 Important to say this definitely isn't the only medication the doctor will prescribe. That's a decision to make in conjunction with the patient after a full medical history.
smsm42 5y ago
I've never heard the word "Semaglutide" before this moment in my life. However, to me naming the thing sounds like "people that did at least some of the homework, and I could probably look it up and see if it's interesting to me", and calling it anonymous "breakthrough medication" sounds like yet another scam that tries to suppress my rational brain and get money out of me before I had time to think if it's worth it. It literally does nothing to inform me or to make me think I may be interested - everybody who can hire a copywriter has "breakthrough something", and I certainly don't have time to pay attention to dig up real information on all of them. I understand that the hustle is a part of the marketing. But medicine is not the area where you should lean on it. At least not on it alone. If you don't give me full and verifiable information about what you have, I won't be interested. Too many scams around and too high risk, especially with the new and yet unproven stuff.
- rich-cartwright 5y ago
  Understood. I thought the easiest way to do this would be to link to the articles which talk about this in more detail. Should probably have added a small paragraph which talked about the bio of it.
issa 5y ago
Just to clarify my initial comment... I am actually not particularly interested in the biological pathways, etc. My reaction was 100% because it sounds like the sketchy language of every single other weight loss "breakthrough" that has been touted in my lifetime. If you watch any youtube fitness guru videos (which I do not recommend!) you will see that it is a standard trope: "All you have to do is eat this one amazing super food" and they never tell you what it is. I think you are trying to offer a legitimate service, so please don't sound like those people.
- rich-cartwright 5y ago
  Makes a ton of sense, and really helpful to know. Thank you.

lkrubner 5y ago

I assume you've heard the advice that small startups should start in a niche and then expand towards the wider markets? Have you thought about initially focusing on Hacker News types, the types who read up on the technical documentation behind a drug? You've probably heard the story about Head & Shoulders shampoo? This is taught in a lot of marketing classes. The year it launched there were other shampoos launching that also included selenium disulfide and piroctone olamine and therefore could have sold themselves as anti-dandruff shampoo, but the other shampoos instead went after the general market and they almost all failed. Head & Shoulders started with a niche and eventually became a giant: "By 1982, it was the "number one brand" of shampoo, and it was noted that "No one hair care brand gets so many ad dollars as Head & Shoulders, a twenty year old brand, and no other brand matches its sales", despite it being a "medicated" shampoo." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_%26_Shoulders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_%26_Shoulders

rich-cartwright 5y ago
Hadn't heard about H&S. Will give it more of a think about best early adopters.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  As someone who knows nothing about Semaglutide and is an HN type, I can tell you that anecdotally, marketing yourself as a breakthrough medicinal weight loss solution sounds very similar to packaging found on gas station counters. Ephedrine was also a breakthrough weight loss treatment...until it wasn't...
  - rich-cartwright 5y ago
    Helpful to know. Thank you.

noduerme 5y ago

Consider hacker mentality. You have a complex system that's not functioning the way it should. Do you drill to the root problem or just patch it temporarily? Weight gain is a problem, and the possible environmental contaminants and other causes behind society-wide weight gain are of interest as a big problem to solve. Workaround hacks like producing more insulin don't drill into the root cause. My first impulse (and probably that of most people here) is to identify what is being sold and then read what's known about the biological pathways it leverages. Not that we wouldn't all mind being fitter. But some argument needs to be made that altering basic cellular biochemistry for up-to 15% weigh loss has a risk/reward profile better than seeking root causes and addressing those, which any coder worth their salt would try to do first.

rich-cartwright 5y ago
Noted. For reference, I've very much tried to design Fella to tackle all the root causes of obesity, which vary person to person: metabolic condition, stress, sleep, exercise, food types & volume, and hormone imbalances.
- noduerme 5y ago
  Beyond personal causes like metabolism or diet, there've been some fascinating discussions here in the past few months about why technologically advanced societies seem to have an exponential obesity problem starting around 1980, relative to other cultures that exercise less and take in more calories. I can't find the thread. But it definitely bears consideration. I think the view would be that hacking your way partially out of a problem isn't necessarily bad, but we've seen decades of data used to incorrectly imply one chain of causality or another and there's a larger problem to solve than a drug or a tummy tuck can tackle.
  - rich-cartwright 5y ago
    Yep more research being done on the hormone imbalance side. Nascent area though.
  - 5y ago

notjulianjaynes 5y ago

If your cagey about whats in your pill my gut reaction is it either doesnt work or youre overcharging for it. I am average American.

rich-cartwright 5y ago
Not at all trying to be cagey, and also not our pill. The main paper is here for more info about the most notable medication: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183 Important to say this definitely isn't the only medication the doctor will prescribe. That's a decision to make in conjunction with the patient after a full medical history.

smsm42 5y ago

I've never heard the word "Semaglutide" before this moment in my life. However, to me naming the thing sounds like "people that did at least some of the homework, and I could probably look it up and see if it's interesting to me", and calling it anonymous "breakthrough medication" sounds like yet another scam that tries to suppress my rational brain and get money out of me before I had time to think if it's worth it. It literally does nothing to inform me or to make me think I may be interested - everybody who can hire a copywriter has "breakthrough something", and I certainly don't have time to pay attention to dig up real information on all of them. I understand that the hustle is a part of the marketing. But medicine is not the area where you should lean on it. At least not on it alone. If you don't give me full and verifiable information about what you have, I won't be interested. Too many scams around and too high risk, especially with the new and yet unproven stuff.

rich-cartwright 5y ago
Understood. I thought the easiest way to do this would be to link to the articles which talk about this in more detail. Should probably have added a small paragraph which talked about the bio of it.

issa 5y ago

Just to clarify my initial comment... I am actually not particularly interested in the biological pathways, etc. My reaction was 100% because it sounds like the sketchy language of every single other weight loss "breakthrough" that has been touted in my lifetime. If you watch any youtube fitness guru videos (which I do not recommend!) you will see that it is a standard trope: "All you have to do is eat this one amazing super food" and they never tell you what it is. I think you are trying to offer a legitimate service, so please don't sound like those people.

rich-cartwright 5y ago
Makes a ton of sense, and really helpful to know. Thank you.