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The parent paid for the device, don't they then own it? Or can kids sign up for phone plans and buy $1,200 devices these days? Normally, if I buy a device, I wa

The parent paid for the device, don't they then own it? Or can kids sign up for phone plans and buy $1,200 devices these days? Normally, if I buy a device, I want control. If I chose to get alerted to porn being sent to my 10 year old - that should be permitted. I don't care if the sender hasn't given consent, I don't give them consent to send porn or naked photos to my kids !

mycall 5y ago
If you buy the device, you own the device. Software too. It is just the OS can disable itself for a string of reasons.
GuB-42 5y ago
The one who pays doesn't matter. Unchecked and applied to adults that line of thinking gives right to terrible things, including slavery. Children are a different story, they are not free, they are under the control and responsibility of their legal guardians. In fact, the status of a child and the status of a slave are not so different, that's why there are very strict laws regarding child labor, because otherwise it could easily end up in actual slavery. Here the problem is not parental control, that is fine, the problem is that the backdoor is now in place and could be potentially used against adults with all the nasty implications. Again, I think the fears are overblown, but I understand that it makes people uncomfortable, especially since they may have bought an overpriced device on the premises of privacy. Most of the most egregious privacy violations start with "think of the children", even more than terrorists and covid.
- slownews45 5y ago
  This is just such a crazy position. If I buy a car it doesn't matter that I own it? If I rent it to you I can't set the terms of that rental? This is just nuts from the EFF.
  - mijamo 5y ago
    You have the fructus but no longer the usus and associated rights. If you own an apartment it does not give you a right to set up webcams to look at the tenants.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      You do if those "tenants" are minors. See: baby monitors.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    There is an enormous difference between a situation where both parties are independent adults, and where the parties are a parent/guardian and their pre-teen child. Trying to make analogies between these is fraught with error.
seoaeu 5y ago
It doesn't matter how much the device cost or how much you want control or how justified your access is, if you are able to intercept private messages sent between two other people then those messages can't reasonably be considered encrypted end-to-end
istingray 5y ago
To protect the children, should Apple should require verification of parental status? Ie upload birth certificate, photos of parents, child, whatever is necessary to establish true legal guardianship. This surveillance is a huge can of worms. Apple should stay faraway.
tekknik 5y ago
How does this work if you buy your spouse/SO a device? Or a parent/grandparent? Even a gift for a friend?
- simondotau 5y ago
  You are making this out to be more complicated than it is. A gift is a gift. A device "assigned" to someone by an administrator (e.g. a work laptop) isn't a gift. The gift of a device with administrative strings attached is just that. Furthermore, by law the parent still effectively owns anything "given" to a pre-teen child. If the parent wants to take the device away from them and sell it, they're well within their rights to do so.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    So now you’re the IT administrator of your family and you’re assigning devices to your employees? It’s a gift when it’s your spouse but not when it’s your child? > Furthermore, by law the parent still effectively owns anything "given" to a pre-teen child. Now that’s very broad. Which country/state/etc? I think if you actually looked instead of assuming, you’ll find that people under 18 can definitely own things.

mycall 5y ago

If you buy the device, you own the device. Software too. It is just the OS can disable itself for a string of reasons.

GuB-42 5y ago

The one who pays doesn't matter. Unchecked and applied to adults that line of thinking gives right to terrible things, including slavery. Children are a different story, they are not free, they are under the control and responsibility of their legal guardians. In fact, the status of a child and the status of a slave are not so different, that's why there are very strict laws regarding child labor, because otherwise it could easily end up in actual slavery. Here the problem is not parental control, that is fine, the problem is that the backdoor is now in place and could be potentially used against adults with all the nasty implications. Again, I think the fears are overblown, but I understand that it makes people uncomfortable, especially since they may have bought an overpriced device on the premises of privacy. Most of the most egregious privacy violations start with "think of the children", even more than terrorists and covid.

slownews45 5y ago
This is just such a crazy position. If I buy a car it doesn't matter that I own it? If I rent it to you I can't set the terms of that rental? This is just nuts from the EFF.
- mijamo 5y ago
  You have the fructus but no longer the usus and associated rights. If you own an apartment it does not give you a right to set up webcams to look at the tenants.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    You do if those "tenants" are minors. See: baby monitors.
- simondotau 5y ago
  There is an enormous difference between a situation where both parties are independent adults, and where the parties are a parent/guardian and their pre-teen child. Trying to make analogies between these is fraught with error.

seoaeu 5y ago

It doesn't matter how much the device cost or how much you want control or how justified your access is, if you are able to intercept private messages sent between two other people then those messages can't reasonably be considered encrypted end-to-end

istingray 5y ago

To protect the children, should Apple should require verification of parental status? Ie upload birth certificate, photos of parents, child, whatever is necessary to establish true legal guardianship. This surveillance is a huge can of worms. Apple should stay faraway.

tekknik 5y ago

How does this work if you buy your spouse/SO a device? Or a parent/grandparent? Even a gift for a friend?

simondotau 5y ago
You are making this out to be more complicated than it is. A gift is a gift. A device "assigned" to someone by an administrator (e.g. a work laptop) isn't a gift. The gift of a device with administrative strings attached is just that. Furthermore, by law the parent still effectively owns anything "given" to a pre-teen child. If the parent wants to take the device away from them and sell it, they're well within their rights to do so.
- tekknik 5y ago
  So now you’re the IT administrator of your family and you’re assigning devices to your employees? It’s a gift when it’s your spouse but not when it’s your child? > Furthermore, by law the parent still effectively owns anything "given" to a pre-teen child. Now that’s very broad. Which country/state/etc? I think if you actually looked instead of assuming, you’ll find that people under 18 can definitely own things.