5 ms·

>"Universal free college" This would greatly increase the amount of critically thinking population. I do not think it lines up well with what the government an

by FpUser 5y ago

>"Universal free college" This would greatly increase the amount of critically thinking population. I do not think it lines up well with what the government and elites want.

coldacid 5y ago
>This would greatly increase the amount of critically thinking population. I wish I were as optimistic as you.
- FpUser 5y ago
  Well I did not say all of them will turn this way ;) But still should be many times better than what it is now.
- godelski 5y ago
  Being in a PhD program has shown me that academic education does not solve any of the political problems. I mean we can also look at other countries and see highly educated populations still not question their governments.
gruez 5y ago
>I do not think it lines up well with what the government and elites want. ...which is why the government subsidizes college tuition with grants and guaranteed loans? Or that banks give out the same loans as well?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The government gives out loans so that politicians can claim they helped people while also claiming they controlled spending and kept taxes low. Those taxpayer guaranteed loans are just taking money from future taxpayers and giving it to the higher education business by letting them increase tuition without limit since there is no underwriting process. And of course the students get saddled with lifelong debt with no exit since they are not dischargeable in regular bankruptcy, and future taxpayers get soaked with paying for the defaulted loans. Private banks used to give out those loans because they were still guaranteed by the government, and I think Obama changed that, but they still have special status that make them harder to discharge in bankruptcy. Tl:dr taxpayer funded loans for higher education are a net negative for society
  - LilBytes 5y ago
    What happens to that debt if a person leaves the US and doesn't return? Ignoring how expensive and difficult that is if you're already saddled with 6 figures of debt for the purpose of discussion. I'm not American and haven't found a clear answer though my Googlefoo.
    - animal_spirits 5y ago
      I had to have a cosigner for all of my student loans. If I disappeared off to a foreign country I bet my parents would be forced to pay in my absence
    - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
      If a person defaults, the debt stays on their credit report in the US for (I think...) seven years. This can have various consequences depending on the new home country and its agreements with the US - from credit issues and possible legal action, to absolutely no consequences at all. Obviously if the person moves back to the US, they'll likely be chased by debt collectors and possibly the IRS.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
> I do not think it lines up well with what the government and elites want. I'm of the (apparently dated) notion that we are the government.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  You’re not alone in this idea.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  When was the last time you had serious input into national policy? And I don't mean with a (token) vote. I mean actually designing and implementing national policy, designing and setting up monitoring of outcomes, and reporting back to everyone else on how the policy idea performed.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    A Princeton study argues convincingly that average citizens and organizations representing the interests of average citizens have little effect on policy: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  That's a fairly popular conspiracy theory with no basis in reality.
macksd 5y ago
A lot of people get all the way through college without ever considering the total cost of compound interest or the value of their major. Many college educations and critical thinking are not remotely the same thing.
- tpoacher 5y ago
  Define "cost"

by FpUser 5y ago

>"Universal free college" This would greatly increase the amount of critically thinking population. I do not think it lines up well with what the government and elites want.

coldacid 5y ago

>This would greatly increase the amount of critically thinking population. I wish I were as optimistic as you.

FpUser 5y ago
Well I did not say all of them will turn this way ;) But still should be many times better than what it is now.
godelski 5y ago
Being in a PhD program has shown me that academic education does not solve any of the political problems. I mean we can also look at other countries and see highly educated populations still not question their governments.

gruez 5y ago

>I do not think it lines up well with what the government and elites want. ...which is why the government subsidizes college tuition with grants and guaranteed loans? Or that banks give out the same loans as well?

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The government gives out loans so that politicians can claim they helped people while also claiming they controlled spending and kept taxes low. Those taxpayer guaranteed loans are just taking money from future taxpayers and giving it to the higher education business by letting them increase tuition without limit since there is no underwriting process. And of course the students get saddled with lifelong debt with no exit since they are not dischargeable in regular bankruptcy, and future taxpayers get soaked with paying for the defaulted loans. Private banks used to give out those loans because they were still guaranteed by the government, and I think Obama changed that, but they still have special status that make them harder to discharge in bankruptcy. Tl:dr taxpayer funded loans for higher education are a net negative for society
- LilBytes 5y ago
  What happens to that debt if a person leaves the US and doesn't return? Ignoring how expensive and difficult that is if you're already saddled with 6 figures of debt for the purpose of discussion. I'm not American and haven't found a clear answer though my Googlefoo.
  - animal_spirits 5y ago
    I had to have a cosigner for all of my student loans. If I disappeared off to a foreign country I bet my parents would be forced to pay in my absence
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    If a person defaults, the debt stays on their credit report in the US for (I think...) seven years. This can have various consequences depending on the new home country and its agreements with the US - from credit issues and possible legal action, to absolutely no consequences at all. Obviously if the person moves back to the US, they'll likely be chased by debt collectors and possibly the IRS.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

> I do not think it lines up well with what the government and elites want. I'm of the (apparently dated) notion that we are the government.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
You’re not alone in this idea.
TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
When was the last time you had serious input into national policy? And I don't mean with a (token) vote. I mean actually designing and implementing national policy, designing and setting up monitoring of outcomes, and reporting back to everyone else on how the policy idea performed.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  A Princeton study argues convincingly that average citizens and organizations representing the interests of average citizens have little effect on policy: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...
kook_throwaway 5y ago
That's a fairly popular conspiracy theory with no basis in reality.

macksd 5y ago

A lot of people get all the way through college without ever considering the total cost of compound interest or the value of their major. Many college educations and critical thinking are not remotely the same thing.

tpoacher 5y ago
Define "cost"