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There are already too many people out there afraid to get a vaccine. Unless we know for sure, why stir up the pot especially with speculation. A few weeks ago

There are already too many people out there afraid to get a vaccine. Unless we know for sure, why stir up the pot especially with speculation. A few weeks ago I got an email from an acquaintance that was in perfect health, and young, from Marin General hospital. They put him on a ventaliator because of Covid. He is out now, but will be on blood thinners for 6 months. He had blood clots in his lungs. 23, and an exercise nut. Every member of his family were anti-vax, until they saw him through the glass. They all have the first shot of Pfizer.

ctoth 5y ago
I mean obviously anyone with any grasp of numbers will look at the balance of probabilities, note that Vaccines have an incredibly low risk compared to Covid, and get vaccinated. This does not mean that we should literally lie about those risks when they do occur! When you think you're smarter than someone and so you're going to shape their information in such a way that they do what you want them to? This is called manipulation. It is a dark art. it is evil. Don't do it.
- deworms 5y ago
  Depending on the demographic you're in the vaccine risk might not be worth it.
  - ianlevesque 5y ago
    There is literally no demographic where the mRNA vaccines are risker than COVID-19. None.
    - bopbeepboop 5y ago
      COVID vaccines based on the Wuhan variant might make people more susceptible to the delta variant: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34384810/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34384810/ There is statistical evidence to suggest this is happening — eg, Israel seeing a delta spike in deaths, but Palestine not. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/state-of-palestine/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/state-of-p... You can see both countries are experiencing a surge in cases, but only Israel is experiencing a surge in deaths.
vorticalbox 5y ago
You have to agree its somewhat confusing when governments (in the UK anyway) are pushing hard while you have professors like Sir Andrew Pollard (Paediatric Infection and Immunity Oxford) Stating in Parliament that the herd immunity will never happen. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-...
- ineedasername 5y ago
  I don't find it confusing. Even experts can disagree, and even if we never, or can't ever, reach herd immunity there is still a perfectly good reason for someone to get vaccinated for their own safety.
- makomk 5y ago
  It's not that inconsistent from a UK perspective, I don't think. The government is still pushing vaccination hard because it protects the people being vaccinated from hospitalization and death and reduces the rate at which Covid spreads, both of which guard against hospitals being overwhelmed, but the idea of vaccinations stopping Covid altogether is pretty much dead here. Official policy is that we'll have to learn to live with the virus. I know the US media and medical establishment has still been pushing hard on the idea that they could have herd immunity and stop the virus spreading if it wasn't for the evil anti-vaxxers ruining it for everyone, but that seems to be founded more in partisan politics than actual evidence. There's also a lot of pressure on any US publication that runs articles about how ineffective the vaccines seem to be against people catching and spreading Delta not to do so.
mionhe 5y ago
I may be totally wrong here, but I think the point they're trying to make is that a lot of people are hesitant to get the new vaccines, despite how well they're working and the (for the most part) lack of side effects, because they keep hearing conflicting information about those vaccines. It's hard to feel confident about something when people who are for something are busy saying that there are no negative side effects at all, while others are pointing out that's untrue in some cases. Rather than withhold information, it's better to treat people as adults, and give them the whole picture so that they can make a decision with all the available information. The example of your acquaintance is a good one, I think, to demonstrate how people are willing to change their mind when they have more of the facts. (In this case, the reality of how bad things can be, and I would guess more accurate information about the vaccines from doctors on-site.)
- pixl97 5y ago
  I'd love if people were just giving the whole picture and the facts. It seems to be difficult to find said truth behind all the lies and misinformation out there.
deworms 5y ago
No shortage of fake scary stories whenever anyone suggests that there might be anything wrong with the vaccines, but discussing that possibility is a huge taboo, no matter how probable it may be. At this point even if they're massively flawed you'll be forbidden from suggesting that.

ctoth 5y ago

I mean obviously anyone with any grasp of numbers will look at the balance of probabilities, note that Vaccines have an incredibly low risk compared to Covid, and get vaccinated. This does not mean that we should literally lie about those risks when they do occur! When you think you're smarter than someone and so you're going to shape their information in such a way that they do what you want them to? This is called manipulation. It is a dark art. it is evil. Don't do it.

deworms 5y ago
Depending on the demographic you're in the vaccine risk might not be worth it.
- ianlevesque 5y ago
  There is literally no demographic where the mRNA vaccines are risker than COVID-19. None.
  - bopbeepboop 5y ago
    COVID vaccines based on the Wuhan variant might make people more susceptible to the delta variant: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34384810/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34384810/ There is statistical evidence to suggest this is happening — eg, Israel seeing a delta spike in deaths, but Palestine not. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/state-of-palestine/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/state-of-p... You can see both countries are experiencing a surge in cases, but only Israel is experiencing a surge in deaths.

vorticalbox 5y ago

You have to agree its somewhat confusing when governments (in the UK anyway) are pushing hard while you have professors like Sir Andrew Pollard (Paediatric Infection and Immunity Oxford) Stating in Parliament that the herd immunity will never happen. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-...

ineedasername 5y ago
I don't find it confusing. Even experts can disagree, and even if we never, or can't ever, reach herd immunity there is still a perfectly good reason for someone to get vaccinated for their own safety.
makomk 5y ago
It's not that inconsistent from a UK perspective, I don't think. The government is still pushing vaccination hard because it protects the people being vaccinated from hospitalization and death and reduces the rate at which Covid spreads, both of which guard against hospitals being overwhelmed, but the idea of vaccinations stopping Covid altogether is pretty much dead here. Official policy is that we'll have to learn to live with the virus. I know the US media and medical establishment has still been pushing hard on the idea that they could have herd immunity and stop the virus spreading if it wasn't for the evil anti-vaxxers ruining it for everyone, but that seems to be founded more in partisan politics than actual evidence. There's also a lot of pressure on any US publication that runs articles about how ineffective the vaccines seem to be against people catching and spreading Delta not to do so.

mionhe 5y ago

I may be totally wrong here, but I think the point they're trying to make is that a lot of people are hesitant to get the new vaccines, despite how well they're working and the (for the most part) lack of side effects, because they keep hearing conflicting information about those vaccines. It's hard to feel confident about something when people who are for something are busy saying that there are no negative side effects at all, while others are pointing out that's untrue in some cases. Rather than withhold information, it's better to treat people as adults, and give them the whole picture so that they can make a decision with all the available information. The example of your acquaintance is a good one, I think, to demonstrate how people are willing to change their mind when they have more of the facts. (In this case, the reality of how bad things can be, and I would guess more accurate information about the vaccines from doctors on-site.)

pixl97 5y ago
I'd love if people were just giving the whole picture and the facts. It seems to be difficult to find said truth behind all the lies and misinformation out there.

deworms 5y ago

No shortage of fake scary stories whenever anyone suggests that there might be anything wrong with the vaccines, but discussing that possibility is a huge taboo, no matter how probable it may be. At this point even if they're massively flawed you'll be forbidden from suggesting that.