4 ms·

The Form I-9 is one example: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf The Form W-4 is another. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs

by ktsmith 15y ago

The Form I-9 is one example: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf The Form W-4 is another. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4p.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4p.pdf For employers enrolled in the E-Verify program having incorrect name data on the Form I-9 can start a process where an employee is flagged as possibly not being eligible to work in the US.

saurik 15y ago
So, the pattern that I found in all of the documents I dealt with, is that if you are filling in /your/ name, it might ask you to break it apart, but if you are filling in /someone else's/ name, it asks for "full name". As you are not supposed to be filling in the name field on an I-9 or a W-4 for your employees, so you should not end up in a situation where your internal wbaite (or whatever) that asked for "full name" screws you. However, note that the "new name" field on the I-9, which is an area of the document you fill out, is not broken apart by first/last.
- ktsmith 15y ago
  I think the pattern is that if the name is relevant data to what the form is used for it's broken out, possibly to aid with data entry. When the name is attached to a signature then it's just so that there's a legible version. With the I-9 specifically section one is done by the employee, section two and three are done by the employer. All of the data in the form pertains to the employees work eligibility and there are rules about what the name in section one says when compared to the documents that are presented for section two or three. So the name in section one is data. The name in section two doesn't really matter as it's just a witness, the company is ultimately responsible for errors in the form, unless there's a criminal issue (document abuse, fraud, perjury, etc). So as with pretty much every form they ask for the printed name since there's a good chance the signature will be illegible. The new name in section three also isn't really important as it's rarely used. You only update the I-9 form and fill in section three on a name change if the persons work eligibility documents need to be updated. Since it's a small percentage of the cases that section three will be used for the government doesn't care too much. What's more interesting to me is they don't even ask for the print name of the person signing section three.
  - saurik 15y ago
    Given that Section One of I-9 is done by the employee, I fail to see how this form (or the W-4) is a case that would force you to enforce any "standards on [y]our users [...] because [you] have to exactly match what the government records contain". It still seems like, when asking for other peoples' names, you can still go with "full name" and not run into any problems when filling out government forms related to that user.
    - ktsmith 15y ago
      Where you do run into problems is with people that have one name, or more than three names. Splitting those up wrong or putting them into the wrong fields can constitue a technical error on the forms, with the I-9 that means accruing civil liability. Also with the I-9 form, if the employer is in the E-Verify program you are increasing the odds that an employee will fail to pass verification. The documentation for employers on how to complete the Form I-9 is 65 pages. That doesn't include the full regulations that are in the federal register, guidance issued by USCIS, or the extra rules that are part of E-Verify.
      - saurik 15y ago
        I really hate to be bothersome, and I really am finding this interesting, and please do feel free to ignore my responses, but I will ask: isn't that part of the form filled in by the employee? How can you make a mistake filling it out, if you are not the one filling it out at all? The parts of the form you (the employer) are involved with only has blanks for "full name".

by ktsmith 15y ago

saurik 15y ago

So, the pattern that I found in all of the documents I dealt with, is that if you are filling in /your/ name, it might ask you to break it apart, but if you are filling in /someone else's/ name, it asks for "full name". As you are not supposed to be filling in the name field on an I-9 or a W-4 for your employees, so you should not end up in a situation where your internal wbaite (or whatever) that asked for "full name" screws you. However, note that the "new name" field on the I-9, which is an area of the document you fill out, is not broken apart by first/last.

ktsmith 15y ago
I think the pattern is that if the name is relevant data to what the form is used for it's broken out, possibly to aid with data entry. When the name is attached to a signature then it's just so that there's a legible version. With the I-9 specifically section one is done by the employee, section two and three are done by the employer. All of the data in the form pertains to the employees work eligibility and there are rules about what the name in section one says when compared to the documents that are presented for section two or three. So the name in section one is data. The name in section two doesn't really matter as it's just a witness, the company is ultimately responsible for errors in the form, unless there's a criminal issue (document abuse, fraud, perjury, etc). So as with pretty much every form they ask for the printed name since there's a good chance the signature will be illegible. The new name in section three also isn't really important as it's rarely used. You only update the I-9 form and fill in section three on a name change if the persons work eligibility documents need to be updated. Since it's a small percentage of the cases that section three will be used for the government doesn't care too much. What's more interesting to me is they don't even ask for the print name of the person signing section three.
- saurik 15y ago
  Given that Section One of I-9 is done by the employee, I fail to see how this form (or the W-4) is a case that would force you to enforce any "standards on [y]our users [...] because [you] have to exactly match what the government records contain". It still seems like, when asking for other peoples' names, you can still go with "full name" and not run into any problems when filling out government forms related to that user.
  - ktsmith 15y ago
    Where you do run into problems is with people that have one name, or more than three names. Splitting those up wrong or putting them into the wrong fields can constitue a technical error on the forms, with the I-9 that means accruing civil liability. Also with the I-9 form, if the employer is in the E-Verify program you are increasing the odds that an employee will fail to pass verification. The documentation for employers on how to complete the Form I-9 is 65 pages. That doesn't include the full regulations that are in the federal register, guidance issued by USCIS, or the extra rules that are part of E-Verify.
    - saurik 15y ago
      I really hate to be bothersome, and I really am finding this interesting, and please do feel free to ignore my responses, but I will ask: isn't that part of the form filled in by the employee? How can you make a mistake filling it out, if you are not the one filling it out at all? The parts of the form you (the employer) are involved with only has blanks for "full name".