5 ms·

Am I reading correctly that your company wanted a one off meeting of the team, a party, and you felt you should have the option not to attend? And because of th

Am I reading correctly that your company wanted a one off meeting of the team, a party, and you felt you should have the option not to attend? And because of that...you quit?

ghaff 5y ago
I know people who would almost certainly refuse to attend a large in-person event right now. He also mentions client meetings. There are jobs with a lot of normally F2F customer interactions where, at this point, getting back to some physical meetings is not really optional (even if it theoretically is).
- simonswords82 5y ago
  Thinking on it more...if a member of my team was vulnerable I would not expect them to take the risk. Reality is that even though we are a work from anywhere business we still need to meet face to face from time to time.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    There will come a time when COVID stops being a no questions asked reason to avoid any in-person events, meetings, or travel. But if at all possible (obviously not everything can be done remotely), I would want to give people flexibility if they think they need it at least through the end of the year.
    - westcort 5y ago
      The larger issue is: Why do highly skilled employees need to ask permission to make a decision as to where they can physically work when physical location is not a requirement of performance of the work? Thanks, I will run my own business instead of working for some dinosaur who thinks nothing has changed since 1998.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        I doubt human nature has changed all that much since 1998.
        westcort 5y ago
        The company I left will lose 25% of annual revenue because of antiquated thinking. Those with unprepared minds should retire. Workers have power, particularly skilled workers who are highly educated. The ones who think for themselves are the ones who start companies and ultimately replace the outmoded companies.
  - westcort 5y ago
    Why is this a reality? It is not a reality for my company.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Periodically getting together F2F is IMO pretty important for building relationships. Not absolutely essential in all cases of course. But I feel that one thing that has allowed me to be productive over the past 18 months is that I've coasted to some degree on existing relationships. This is true of both people I work with at my company and industry peers. And I've heard the same argument from many people with respect to attending industry events and the like where many value the hallway track which has been pretty much dismal with online events. (To be clear, I obviously don't mean the whole company at a large company. But I do think it important for teams and people who otherwise work together.)
      - westcort 5y ago
        Face to face is going to get very expensive very fast. It can get more expensive than you imagine. As I mentioned, the company I left is taking a huge hit. Opinions don’t stand up to reality in a changed world. No matter your past experience, this is new to you and your experience is no good here. Fortune favors the prepared mind.
        ghaff 5y ago
        Your company, your choice. But neither I nor most of the people I know have any interest in a company that is aggressively remote only in this manner. Best of luck.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - westcort 5y ago
    I find it amazing that you think you can decide for someone about a health issue citing that face to face is just a “reality” to people who have been doing their jobs for 18 months effectively from home. Managers think they own people. They don’t and good luck to anyone on “your” team, as if it ever was. What exactly is the work-related task you can’t do except face to face? The insecurity is really coming out here with middle managers. You don’t pay the salary. You are an employee too. Middle management is a dying breed. Problem is the future is here 20 years early. Good luck with retention.
    - simonswords82 5y ago
      You clearly had a bad experience with managers, sorry to hear that. So did I before I started my businesses over 15 years ago. The people I employ are on "my" team just as I am on "their" team. It's not a question of ownership. I decided to set us up as a work from anywhere business at the start of the pandemic because that's best for my team and for the business overall. Having said that I still need face to face meetings from time to time, as do our clients... notwithstanding I'll always consider the impact of those requests on my individual team members. I have no issues with retention and my employee NPS scores are consistently over 50 percent.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - h4waii 5y ago
        But, still, what exactly is it that requires face to face meetings? There are countless companies and organizations doing business across the entire world, having never met the other party "face to face".
        westcort 5y ago
        His ego
westcort 5y ago
Yes, and I have tripled my income in the first 2 months of starting my business. There were multiple face to face meetings planned with clients, as well.

Am I reading correctly that your company wanted a one off meeting of the team, a party, and you felt you should have the option not to attend? And because of that...you quit?

ghaff 5y ago

I know people who would almost certainly refuse to attend a large in-person event right now. He also mentions client meetings. There are jobs with a lot of normally F2F customer interactions where, at this point, getting back to some physical meetings is not really optional (even if it theoretically is).

simonswords82 5y ago
Thinking on it more...if a member of my team was vulnerable I would not expect them to take the risk. Reality is that even though we are a work from anywhere business we still need to meet face to face from time to time.
- ghaff 5y ago
  There will come a time when COVID stops being a no questions asked reason to avoid any in-person events, meetings, or travel. But if at all possible (obviously not everything can be done remotely), I would want to give people flexibility if they think they need it at least through the end of the year.
  - westcort 5y ago
    The larger issue is: Why do highly skilled employees need to ask permission to make a decision as to where they can physically work when physical location is not a requirement of performance of the work? Thanks, I will run my own business instead of working for some dinosaur who thinks nothing has changed since 1998.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I doubt human nature has changed all that much since 1998.
      - westcort 5y ago
        The company I left will lose 25% of annual revenue because of antiquated thinking. Those with unprepared minds should retire. Workers have power, particularly skilled workers who are highly educated. The ones who think for themselves are the ones who start companies and ultimately replace the outmoded companies.
- westcort 5y ago
  Why is this a reality? It is not a reality for my company.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Periodically getting together F2F is IMO pretty important for building relationships. Not absolutely essential in all cases of course. But I feel that one thing that has allowed me to be productive over the past 18 months is that I've coasted to some degree on existing relationships. This is true of both people I work with at my company and industry peers. And I've heard the same argument from many people with respect to attending industry events and the like where many value the hallway track which has been pretty much dismal with online events. (To be clear, I obviously don't mean the whole company at a large company. But I do think it important for teams and people who otherwise work together.)
    - westcort 5y ago
      Face to face is going to get very expensive very fast. It can get more expensive than you imagine. As I mentioned, the company I left is taking a huge hit. Opinions don’t stand up to reality in a changed world. No matter your past experience, this is new to you and your experience is no good here. Fortune favors the prepared mind.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        Your company, your choice. But neither I nor most of the people I know have any interest in a company that is aggressively remote only in this manner. Best of luck.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- westcort 5y ago
  I find it amazing that you think you can decide for someone about a health issue citing that face to face is just a “reality” to people who have been doing their jobs for 18 months effectively from home. Managers think they own people. They don’t and good luck to anyone on “your” team, as if it ever was. What exactly is the work-related task you can’t do except face to face? The insecurity is really coming out here with middle managers. You don’t pay the salary. You are an employee too. Middle management is a dying breed. Problem is the future is here 20 years early. Good luck with retention.
  - simonswords82 5y ago
    You clearly had a bad experience with managers, sorry to hear that. So did I before I started my businesses over 15 years ago. The people I employ are on "my" team just as I am on "their" team. It's not a question of ownership. I decided to set us up as a work from anywhere business at the start of the pandemic because that's best for my team and for the business overall. Having said that I still need face to face meetings from time to time, as do our clients... notwithstanding I'll always consider the impact of those requests on my individual team members. I have no issues with retention and my employee NPS scores are consistently over 50 percent.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - h4waii 5y ago
      But, still, what exactly is it that requires face to face meetings? There are countless companies and organizations doing business across the entire world, having never met the other party "face to face".
      - westcort 5y ago
        His ego

westcort 5y ago

Yes, and I have tripled my income in the first 2 months of starting my business. There were multiple face to face meetings planned with clients, as well.