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I think what people mean by "genius" is some innate ability which is much way superior (~10x) to general population. Example: Terence Tao attending university

I think what people mean by "genius" is some innate ability which is much way superior (~10x) to general population. Example: Terence Tao attending university level math courses at age 9 [1] This cannot be explained by any checklist or regimen. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao#Childhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao#Childhood

rybosworld 5y ago
Agreed. There definitely seem to be instances where someone possess innate ability that cannot be matched through perseverance alone.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  Not to defend the site... It leaves a bad taste for some reason... ... But the site never claimed that you'd become a genius by following the checklist. Just that you'd make a lot of progress. The items on the checklist also do seem to be associated with many of the people that I've met who I'd call geniuses. (I've been lucky to meet a few, at least online.) For example, intellectual curiosity, stress free life, solid sleep schedule, general happiness. It's very difficult to find an instance of a miserable genius. Misery, for unknown reasons, seems to undercut one's ability to apply their genius traits. So although I don't think this checklist is going to transform you into a genius, it does seem to be a checklist of qualities that geniuses tend to share. I just wish it was presented in a clinical, dispassionate way, rather than a "you can too!" style.
  - ravenouswolves6 5y ago
    > It's very difficult to find an instance of a miserable genius. Isaac Newton?
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      That's an interesting counterexample, though I've often wondered what he was actually like. We only hear the tales from history, which are extremes by definition. I imagine that pg's bio might have similar things to say, but those who knew him remember how snappy and full of energy he is. His online persona and writings give a very different impression.
- 5faulker 5y ago
  But the opposite is also true. Also, isn't that an instance of a fixed mindset?
oenetan 5y ago
Yes, agreed to. There will always be top of the top people like Droge, Carmack, Bellard, Thompson, Torvalds, etc.. (you get the point) who's innate ability will far trample the average person no matter what. But i do think the average person can do better than average if they put their effort to it. Not everyone can be the best, but it doesn't mean you cant be good either.
oenetan 5y ago
As for Tao, I think he was a smart kid who's parents just pushed him in the right direciton. If his parents weren't involved and he started math at a later age, I'm sure he would still be great, just not as prolific as he is right now. So its a mix of genetics and experience in my opinion.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Terence Tao is one of 3 brothers. Terence is in a league of his own.
PartiallyTyped 5y ago
What about the Polgar sisters [1]? There is a story of Terence where at 4 or 5 years old or so explained math to his cousins who were 9 or so years old, but my memory may not serve me right. I share a similar experience and I am certainly not a genius. By 4 I was doing long division and multiplication, and playing with negative and parentheses; this was the consequence of attentive parents. As I grew older my environment became significantly less supportive and even hostile. At 16 I was deep in depression and almost failed math at precalc, only for the next year to have the highest scores in honors and I was against people who also did A-levels for a year and therefore had well over a year more experience. I genuinely believe we are a) not asking enough of our brains, and b) not providing the right environment for children to grow as school is often treated as baby sitting for parents to ~~slave away at~~ work. [1] https://productiveclub.com/polgar-sisters-story/ https://productiveclub.com/polgar-sisters-story/
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>I think what people mean by "genius" is some innate ability which is much way superior (~10x) to general population. and that ability allows them to produce work in some field dependent on that ability that is innovative and clearly superior to other works in that field. At least that's part of my definition. >Example: Terence Tao attending university level math courses at age 9 that's a prodigy, when they achieve breakthroughs when adult is when I start to talk about genius.
- devnull3 5y ago
  I specially mentioned about his childhood to counter the main article i.e. a child cannot follow such a strict regimen. Also, the wikipedia talks about his research contribution and it is highly impressive. He is one of the top mathematician in the world.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    I didn't deny he was a genius, just noted that achievements seem required in the general understanding of the word.
davidjytang 5y ago
Terence Tao seemed to be very productive. And I bet a lot of his traits are from nurture not nature.

rybosworld 5y ago

Agreed. There definitely seem to be instances where someone possess innate ability that cannot be matched through perseverance alone.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
Not to defend the site... It leaves a bad taste for some reason... ... But the site never claimed that you'd become a genius by following the checklist. Just that you'd make a lot of progress. The items on the checklist also do seem to be associated with many of the people that I've met who I'd call geniuses. (I've been lucky to meet a few, at least online.) For example, intellectual curiosity, stress free life, solid sleep schedule, general happiness. It's very difficult to find an instance of a miserable genius. Misery, for unknown reasons, seems to undercut one's ability to apply their genius traits. So although I don't think this checklist is going to transform you into a genius, it does seem to be a checklist of qualities that geniuses tend to share. I just wish it was presented in a clinical, dispassionate way, rather than a "you can too!" style.
- ravenouswolves6 5y ago
  > It's very difficult to find an instance of a miserable genius. Isaac Newton?
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    That's an interesting counterexample, though I've often wondered what he was actually like. We only hear the tales from history, which are extremes by definition. I imagine that pg's bio might have similar things to say, but those who knew him remember how snappy and full of energy he is. His online persona and writings give a very different impression.
5faulker 5y ago
But the opposite is also true. Also, isn't that an instance of a fixed mindset?

oenetan 5y ago

Yes, agreed to. There will always be top of the top people like Droge, Carmack, Bellard, Thompson, Torvalds, etc.. (you get the point) who's innate ability will far trample the average person no matter what. But i do think the average person can do better than average if they put their effort to it. Not everyone can be the best, but it doesn't mean you cant be good either.

oenetan 5y ago

As for Tao, I think he was a smart kid who's parents just pushed him in the right direciton. If his parents weren't involved and he started math at a later age, I'm sure he would still be great, just not as prolific as he is right now. So its a mix of genetics and experience in my opinion.

alisonkisk 5y ago
Terence Tao is one of 3 brothers. Terence is in a league of his own.

PartiallyTyped 5y ago

What about the Polgar sisters [1]? There is a story of Terence where at 4 or 5 years old or so explained math to his cousins who were 9 or so years old, but my memory may not serve me right. I share a similar experience and I am certainly not a genius. By 4 I was doing long division and multiplication, and playing with negative and parentheses; this was the consequence of attentive parents. As I grew older my environment became significantly less supportive and even hostile. At 16 I was deep in depression and almost failed math at precalc, only for the next year to have the highest scores in honors and I was against people who also did A-levels for a year and therefore had well over a year more experience. I genuinely believe we are a) not asking enough of our brains, and b) not providing the right environment for children to grow as school is often treated as baby sitting for parents to ~~slave away at~~ work. [1] https://productiveclub.com/polgar-sisters-story/ https://productiveclub.com/polgar-sisters-story/

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>I think what people mean by "genius" is some innate ability which is much way superior (~10x) to general population. and that ability allows them to produce work in some field dependent on that ability that is innovative and clearly superior to other works in that field. At least that's part of my definition. >Example: Terence Tao attending university level math courses at age 9 that's a prodigy, when they achieve breakthroughs when adult is when I start to talk about genius.

devnull3 5y ago
I specially mentioned about his childhood to counter the main article i.e. a child cannot follow such a strict regimen. Also, the wikipedia talks about his research contribution and it is highly impressive. He is one of the top mathematician in the world.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  I didn't deny he was a genius, just noted that achievements seem required in the general understanding of the word.

davidjytang 5y ago

Terence Tao seemed to be very productive. And I bet a lot of his traits are from nurture not nature.