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I worked for Steve Jobs and I wouldn't say I knew what he was like. I had an outsiders view of what he was, and while there were some stories of his behavior, a

I worked for Steve Jobs and I wouldn't say I knew what he was like. I had an outsiders view of what he was, and while there were some stories of his behavior, a lot of the details weren't out there. This was before the world of blogs, Twitter, Gawker or wherever people now share this sort of information. Once you start working in an environment with a Steve Jobs type, things become complex and conflicted. You feel that you are doing great work, and sometimes you are. A Steve Jobs type will figure out how to motivate you with some percentage of shame, praise, monetary rewards or whatever combination allows them to drive you to generate the results they want. Saying people want to be abused in pursuit of creating greatness is a vast oversimplification of the dynamics that occur in these types of relationships. It is an interesting dynamic that develops over time and is in general quite unhealthy. I still have Steve trauma to this day! I don't want to equate it with more damaging forms of physical and emotional abuse, but there was damage done.

tailspin2019 5y ago
This is interesting. There are similar "stories" about Elon Musk. Perhaps not quite the same as Jobs, but in the same vein. I've often wondered about this personality type of the emotionally unregulated, genius leader, who gets amazing things done, but can leave a bit of a wake behind them of slightly damaged people (both professionally and personally). Is this really the only way to get great things done? Or is it just that these individuals get talked about a lot, and meanwhile the well balanced emotionally intelligent leaders are quietly working away, respecting their team and also doing groundbreaking stuff... Anyway, never seen anyone talk about working for Steve here, so thanks for sharing your insights!
- diskzero 5y ago
  I would hope that the majority of "great" things that are getting done are on teams that are managed in thoughtful, healthy and constructive ways. The Steve Jobs way of doing things worked in that he was able to motivate small teams of people to generate results quickly to solve problems that were quite difficult. The market both rewarded and punished him for this. It would be nice to get away from personality cult product development. If there is a process to do this, I am all for it!
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    > It would be nice to get away from personality cult product development. I struggle with this moral dilemma constantly. Say if we look at SpaceX/Tesla and their respective impact on space transportation and EVs - does the outcome justify the means if Musk treats his employees badly? (I'm not saying he does - I don't know that - just hypothetically). Same for Jobs... Is it morally acceptable to have this kind of personality type in charge if the output of the organisation pushes things forward for a large number of people? I don't mean to debate really whether we consider SpaceX or Apple to have pushed things forward for humanity - but for the sake of this discussion... I've worked with a lot of business leaders myself who show quite similar traits. From my perspective there is a personality type here that seems to be suited to high risk, leading edge organisations that move fast, cut through the crap, disrupt, and get things done. (But, can treat those around them quite badly). As a technologist I love the progress created by some of these companies, as a moral human being, I sometimes struggle a bit with the "means".
    - diskzero 5y ago
      Your struggle is completely understandable. It goes even deeper with me. I struggle with how people can work for Apple/Facebook/Twitter/Google/Any Company? when you can create charts of the good vs bad impact they have. If one dwells to much on this, it leads to madness.
zpeti 5y ago
> I still have Steve trauma to this day! We have trauma about all sorts of things. The ultimate question in your story is - Would you do it again or not if you had a choice? I suspect the majority of people who work with these crazy geniuses would want to do it gain despite everything. So there is something of value there above the abuse.
- diskzero 5y ago
  Oof. Such a hard question! It was one of those experiences at the right age, at the right time, where I was able to tolerate the experience. I couldn't do it now at my age and mental state. If I could go back in time, I might try to work with other personalities in technology who also were meaningul to me and could have used the zeal and energy applied to their projects.

tailspin2019 5y ago

This is interesting. There are similar "stories" about Elon Musk. Perhaps not quite the same as Jobs, but in the same vein. I've often wondered about this personality type of the emotionally unregulated, genius leader, who gets amazing things done, but can leave a bit of a wake behind them of slightly damaged people (both professionally and personally). Is this really the only way to get great things done? Or is it just that these individuals get talked about a lot, and meanwhile the well balanced emotionally intelligent leaders are quietly working away, respecting their team and also doing groundbreaking stuff... Anyway, never seen anyone talk about working for Steve here, so thanks for sharing your insights!

diskzero 5y ago
I would hope that the majority of "great" things that are getting done are on teams that are managed in thoughtful, healthy and constructive ways. The Steve Jobs way of doing things worked in that he was able to motivate small teams of people to generate results quickly to solve problems that were quite difficult. The market both rewarded and punished him for this. It would be nice to get away from personality cult product development. If there is a process to do this, I am all for it!
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  > It would be nice to get away from personality cult product development. I struggle with this moral dilemma constantly. Say if we look at SpaceX/Tesla and their respective impact on space transportation and EVs - does the outcome justify the means if Musk treats his employees badly? (I'm not saying he does - I don't know that - just hypothetically). Same for Jobs... Is it morally acceptable to have this kind of personality type in charge if the output of the organisation pushes things forward for a large number of people? I don't mean to debate really whether we consider SpaceX or Apple to have pushed things forward for humanity - but for the sake of this discussion... I've worked with a lot of business leaders myself who show quite similar traits. From my perspective there is a personality type here that seems to be suited to high risk, leading edge organisations that move fast, cut through the crap, disrupt, and get things done. (But, can treat those around them quite badly). As a technologist I love the progress created by some of these companies, as a moral human being, I sometimes struggle a bit with the "means".
  - diskzero 5y ago
    Your struggle is completely understandable. It goes even deeper with me. I struggle with how people can work for Apple/Facebook/Twitter/Google/Any Company? when you can create charts of the good vs bad impact they have. If one dwells to much on this, it leads to madness.

zpeti 5y ago

> I still have Steve trauma to this day! We have trauma about all sorts of things. The ultimate question in your story is - Would you do it again or not if you had a choice? I suspect the majority of people who work with these crazy geniuses would want to do it gain despite everything. So there is something of value there above the abuse.

diskzero 5y ago
Oof. Such a hard question! It was one of those experiences at the right age, at the right time, where I was able to tolerate the experience. I couldn't do it now at my age and mental state. If I could go back in time, I might try to work with other personalities in technology who also were meaningul to me and could have used the zeal and energy applied to their projects.