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It never ceases to surprise me how the most innovative company in the auto industry, maybe in the world, the only company actually attempting to move the needle

It never ceases to surprise me how the most innovative company in the auto industry, maybe in the world, the only company actually attempting to move the needle is so despised in HN. Is it not obvious that when attempting to do what no one, ever, has been able to do, timelines and predictions are hard to nail down? Is it not better for Musk to be overly optimistic than join the legions of miserable cynics that cannot do anything but whine and at best repackage the works of better people?

malcolmgreaves 5y ago
They're despised because they're liars. They're not trying to move the needle. They're selling a PR image of moving the needle.
- mwint 5y ago
  That PR needle image is shipping cars that are showing up in YouTube videos driving non-employee consumers through San Francisco with minimal intervention. Maybe it’s reckless, maybe it’s dangerous, maybe it’ll never work in $scenario. But it’s more than a PR image.
  - malcolmgreaves 5y ago
    > that are showing up in YouTube videos This is PR.
sidibe 5y ago
> the only company actually attempting to move the needle is so despised in HN This adulation certainly contributes. Just because other companies aren't constantly talking about or hawking their half-baked things doesn't mean they're not doing research. There are some companies spending more on research than Tesla's entire budget, but some of you seem to think Tesla is the only one trying new things because their CEO has to organize an event and riff about anything that comes to mind while pretending it's almost done. It honestly makes me sad that so many people fall for this.
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  Absolutely. Tesla bot was the nail in the coffin for me.
  - castratikron 5y ago
    Was the Bot reveal any worse than Asimo from Honda in 2000?
    - steve_adams_86 5y ago
      I can’t say, I was only 14 and I don’t recall any promises Honda made about Asimo. What’s your take on it? Do you remember? I’d like to know more and gain some more context here. I mean, maybe Tesla bot and Asimo are part of something very cyclical, a technology pattern that’s been occurring for decades. I think the issue with Tesla for me has been too much over-promising. Their products are stellar by all measures in my opinion, but I have great admiration for being intentional, transparent, and communicating clearly in business while also delivering. It’s hard to do but it’s important and I believe it signifies honesty, reliability, and company cohesion - sort of soft metrics I feel I can trust in the long term. Tesla clearly embodies some of this, but the lack of intention aligning with reality, plans changing, lack of transparency - that’s a company for don’t want to depend on for products or to invest my money in.
      - theluketaylor 5y ago
        There are stories about tesla employees (even the execs) learning about a feature or timeline they are responsible for delivering when elon tweets about it. Apparently the best approach is to hope he forgets, since telling him he is wrong gets you fired.
    - aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 5y ago
      Asimo was an actual product.
      - 5y ago
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I’m just totally disinterested in anyone moving the needle on autonomous vehicles. To me they represent little but surveillance and dependence on software updates. If you ever saw the animated film “Appleseed Ex Machina” you might be more sympathetic to my position. Or I, Robot for that matter. I just don’t need a million cars doing whatever the next software update tells them, it’s not worth it for a little line following bot.
- aeternum 5y ago
  Why draw the line at vehicles? You carry in your pocket every day a device that does whatever the next software update tells it, yet you trust it will all your personal information and feel lost if it leaves your side.
  - SevenSigs 5y ago
    an offline GPS device would solve most of my problems of not having a phone with me at all times... but all cars broadcast your location anyways. https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    I can actually get along fine without my smartphone thanks Also my phone doesn’t do 0-60 in 2 seconds so I have a little less fear of it being automated
rchaud 5y ago
Timelines are hard to nail down. So why does Tesla's leadership keep announcing targets that are repeatedly missed? Especially as "self-driving" was supposed to be ready by 2018. Meanwhile, it's 2021, and the CEO is saying "it's harder than I thought", while again promising that you can put your safety in the hands of a beta software "soon". "Haha, FSD 9 beta is shipping soon, I swear! Generalized self-driving is a hard problem, as it requires solving a large part of real-world AI. I didn’t expect it to be so hard, but the difficulty is obvious in retrospect. Nothing has more degrees of freedom than reality." [0] [0] https://electrek.co/2021/07/05/elon-musk-admits-self-driving-harder-than-he-thought-tesla-troll-missed-deadlines/ https://electrek.co/2021/07/05/elon-musk-admits-self-driving...
- miohtama 5y ago
  But should consumers really get their money back in some point, because the product was falsely promoted and advertised?
tibbydudeza 5y ago
Marketing hype and optimistic BS get's tired after a while. It would have been better he raised funding behind the scenes and continued build good electric cars and keeping FSD as a skunkworks until it was ready. Like Waymo - show of the tech but say it is not ready yet.
- zaptrem 5y ago
  Apple reportedly had a really hard time hiring AV people due to the exact secrecy you're discussing.

malcolmgreaves 5y ago

They're despised because they're liars. They're not trying to move the needle. They're selling a PR image of moving the needle.

mwint 5y ago
That PR needle image is shipping cars that are showing up in YouTube videos driving non-employee consumers through San Francisco with minimal intervention. Maybe it’s reckless, maybe it’s dangerous, maybe it’ll never work in $scenario. But it’s more than a PR image.
- malcolmgreaves 5y ago
  > that are showing up in YouTube videos This is PR.

sidibe 5y ago

> the only company actually attempting to move the needle is so despised in HN This adulation certainly contributes. Just because other companies aren't constantly talking about or hawking their half-baked things doesn't mean they're not doing research. There are some companies spending more on research than Tesla's entire budget, but some of you seem to think Tesla is the only one trying new things because their CEO has to organize an event and riff about anything that comes to mind while pretending it's almost done. It honestly makes me sad that so many people fall for this.

steve_adams_86 5y ago
Absolutely. Tesla bot was the nail in the coffin for me.
- castratikron 5y ago
  Was the Bot reveal any worse than Asimo from Honda in 2000?
  - steve_adams_86 5y ago
    I can’t say, I was only 14 and I don’t recall any promises Honda made about Asimo. What’s your take on it? Do you remember? I’d like to know more and gain some more context here. I mean, maybe Tesla bot and Asimo are part of something very cyclical, a technology pattern that’s been occurring for decades. I think the issue with Tesla for me has been too much over-promising. Their products are stellar by all measures in my opinion, but I have great admiration for being intentional, transparent, and communicating clearly in business while also delivering. It’s hard to do but it’s important and I believe it signifies honesty, reliability, and company cohesion - sort of soft metrics I feel I can trust in the long term. Tesla clearly embodies some of this, but the lack of intention aligning with reality, plans changing, lack of transparency - that’s a company for don’t want to depend on for products or to invest my money in.
    - theluketaylor 5y ago
      There are stories about tesla employees (even the execs) learning about a feature or timeline they are responsible for delivering when elon tweets about it. Apparently the best approach is to hope he forgets, since telling him he is wrong gets you fired.
  - aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 5y ago
    Asimo was an actual product.
    - 5y ago

jazzyjackson 5y ago

I’m just totally disinterested in anyone moving the needle on autonomous vehicles. To me they represent little but surveillance and dependence on software updates. If you ever saw the animated film “Appleseed Ex Machina” you might be more sympathetic to my position. Or I, Robot for that matter. I just don’t need a million cars doing whatever the next software update tells them, it’s not worth it for a little line following bot.

aeternum 5y ago
Why draw the line at vehicles? You carry in your pocket every day a device that does whatever the next software update tells it, yet you trust it will all your personal information and feel lost if it leaves your side.
- SevenSigs 5y ago
  an offline GPS device would solve most of my problems of not having a phone with me at all times... but all cars broadcast your location anyways. https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  I can actually get along fine without my smartphone thanks Also my phone doesn’t do 0-60 in 2 seconds so I have a little less fear of it being automated

rchaud 5y ago

Timelines are hard to nail down. So why does Tesla's leadership keep announcing targets that are repeatedly missed? Especially as "self-driving" was supposed to be ready by 2018. Meanwhile, it's 2021, and the CEO is saying "it's harder than I thought", while again promising that you can put your safety in the hands of a beta software "soon". "Haha, FSD 9 beta is shipping soon, I swear! Generalized self-driving is a hard problem, as it requires solving a large part of real-world AI. I didn’t expect it to be so hard, but the difficulty is obvious in retrospect. Nothing has more degrees of freedom than reality." [0] [0] https://electrek.co/2021/07/05/elon-musk-admits-self-driving-harder-than-he-thought-tesla-troll-missed-deadlines/ https://electrek.co/2021/07/05/elon-musk-admits-self-driving...

miohtama 5y ago
But should consumers really get their money back in some point, because the product was falsely promoted and advertised?

tibbydudeza 5y ago

Marketing hype and optimistic BS get's tired after a while. It would have been better he raised funding behind the scenes and continued build good electric cars and keeping FSD as a skunkworks until it was ready. Like Waymo - show of the tech but say it is not ready yet.

zaptrem 5y ago
Apple reportedly had a really hard time hiring AV people due to the exact secrecy you're discussing.