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I'm currently in a situation where I consider quitting after almost 8 years working with really good people. But the company itself has some structural problems

I'm currently in a situation where I consider quitting after almost 8 years working with really good people. But the company itself has some structural problems that we, as a small team, cannot change (as in "upper management doesn't see the problem"). And I have enough of this. As I don't have many people around me outside work, I feel hesitant to "leave my family behind".

adwww 5y ago
I've just left a similar workplace and while I feel my reasons for leaving were right, I do slightly regret my decision. It's frustrating that too often management don't see the problems everyone else sees, and would rather waste $£ on recruitment than retention.
- KSteffensen 5y ago
  As a mid-level manager I do wish people would inform my of any problems before they sign with some other workplace instead of after. I can't fix issues I don't hear about
  - cmmeur01 5y ago
    Most of the time these things fall on deaf ears, are met with empty promises, or middle management isn’t in a position to change what needs to be changed. I left both of my last jobs for these reasons. It became a waste of time to go voice these concerns when my time would be better spent looking for a new job.
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    Another manager here; you also can't fix most issues you do hear about. You can sometimes prevent the problem from forming in the first place, but it's not on "people to inform you" of them. Your entire job is trying to catch the few issues you can address early and doing your best to shield your team from the rest of them.
    - noirbot 5y ago
      Personally, a lot of my experience is that my manager knows and understands the issue and is doing their best, but at some point there's only so much "managing up" they can do to prevent larger dysfunction in the org from effecting the team. I had a discussion with my manager about this the other week and they asked me to let them know if I was considering other work so that they could try to fix it - my response was that I didn't think that would help. By the time I'm considering another job it's _because_ I no longer think my manager can or will do anything to fix the issues I have. People generally don't leave companies when they feel like their manager would have been able to solve their issues with the company.
    - KSteffensen 5y ago
      I tend to disagree with both points. I can't read minds. I need people to tell me what works and what doesn't for them. An employment is a continuous transaction, if the situation changes it is absolutely open to re-negotiation. It's on both the employer, the direct manager and the employee to make sure everybody is happy with the arrangement. And the two times I did hear about problem before the new contract was signed, I was able to find a solution. In the other case there is not much I can do.
  - adwww 5y ago
    My problem was the mid-level managers ha. As it has been in a previous employer as well actually. One problem I've noticed is the sort of person who wants to apply for management roles is often the exact sort of person who should never be given that role.
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  Recruitment means you need to spend money on the new people. Retention means you need to spend money on everyone.
  - adwww 5y ago
    True in terms of salary. But that misses the huge time cost of recruitment (time writing job specs, screening, interviewing + 3 months or so of lower productivity) when often retention could be improved with zero / low cost culture changes.
znpy 5y ago
I've been in a similar situation. I can tell you that many people left, and after years small groups of former co-workers formed at various other companies.
- bogomipz 5y ago
  I have also worked a companies where this "reassembly" of former coworkers(more than 2) emerges at a new company. While I understand this might be seen as a good source of recruiting I think it can be potentially concerning that they're brining their old culture, allegiances and patterns into the new workplace. I would be curious to hear if people view this as a red flag.
  - znpy 5y ago
    I see your points. However, I don't think anybody would even try to bring anything from the old job if it's not worth it (technically/professionally) Nd valid in general.
meowfly 5y ago
Your situation is is very similar to how mine was. I recently changed jobs after being on the same team for almost a decade. It's honestly a bit rough having to rebuild relationships. I'm working in completely new technologies, which is one of the reasons I decided to move, but it's kind of difficult to go from a place of 100% trust of your peers to uncertainty about how they perceive you. I've still been seeing some of my old team on weekends.
- pitched 5y ago
  > I've still been seeing some of my old team on weekends. I think this is the key to it right here. The ones you chose not to leave behind were friends, not peers. After almost a decade, they probably are more family than friend. The rest of them though? Not even close.
jjk166 5y ago
If you have strong connections with the people and you are leaving for reasons they can understand and respect, there's no reason to equate leaving the company with leaving the family. It's more like moving out of your parent's house - you won't see them as much, and it'll become more of an effort to maintain your relationships, but all that history is still there.
- MrGilbert 5y ago
  I like the "parent's house" analogy. Looking at it from this perspective, it might not be as bad as I picture it for myself.

adwww 5y ago

I've just left a similar workplace and while I feel my reasons for leaving were right, I do slightly regret my decision. It's frustrating that too often management don't see the problems everyone else sees, and would rather waste $£ on recruitment than retention.

KSteffensen 5y ago
As a mid-level manager I do wish people would inform my of any problems before they sign with some other workplace instead of after. I can't fix issues I don't hear about
- cmmeur01 5y ago
  Most of the time these things fall on deaf ears, are met with empty promises, or middle management isn’t in a position to change what needs to be changed. I left both of my last jobs for these reasons. It became a waste of time to go voice these concerns when my time would be better spent looking for a new job.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  Another manager here; you also can't fix most issues you do hear about. You can sometimes prevent the problem from forming in the first place, but it's not on "people to inform you" of them. Your entire job is trying to catch the few issues you can address early and doing your best to shield your team from the rest of them.
  - noirbot 5y ago
    Personally, a lot of my experience is that my manager knows and understands the issue and is doing their best, but at some point there's only so much "managing up" they can do to prevent larger dysfunction in the org from effecting the team. I had a discussion with my manager about this the other week and they asked me to let them know if I was considering other work so that they could try to fix it - my response was that I didn't think that would help. By the time I'm considering another job it's _because_ I no longer think my manager can or will do anything to fix the issues I have. People generally don't leave companies when they feel like their manager would have been able to solve their issues with the company.
  - KSteffensen 5y ago
    I tend to disagree with both points. I can't read minds. I need people to tell me what works and what doesn't for them. An employment is a continuous transaction, if the situation changes it is absolutely open to re-negotiation. It's on both the employer, the direct manager and the employee to make sure everybody is happy with the arrangement. And the two times I did hear about problem before the new contract was signed, I was able to find a solution. In the other case there is not much I can do.
- adwww 5y ago
  My problem was the mid-level managers ha. As it has been in a previous employer as well actually. One problem I've noticed is the sort of person who wants to apply for management roles is often the exact sort of person who should never be given that role.
Viliam1234 5y ago
Recruitment means you need to spend money on the new people. Retention means you need to spend money on everyone.
- adwww 5y ago
  True in terms of salary. But that misses the huge time cost of recruitment (time writing job specs, screening, interviewing + 3 months or so of lower productivity) when often retention could be improved with zero / low cost culture changes.

znpy 5y ago

I've been in a similar situation. I can tell you that many people left, and after years small groups of former co-workers formed at various other companies.

bogomipz 5y ago
I have also worked a companies where this "reassembly" of former coworkers(more than 2) emerges at a new company. While I understand this might be seen as a good source of recruiting I think it can be potentially concerning that they're brining their old culture, allegiances and patterns into the new workplace. I would be curious to hear if people view this as a red flag.
- znpy 5y ago
  I see your points. However, I don't think anybody would even try to bring anything from the old job if it's not worth it (technically/professionally) Nd valid in general.

meowfly 5y ago

Your situation is is very similar to how mine was. I recently changed jobs after being on the same team for almost a decade. It's honestly a bit rough having to rebuild relationships. I'm working in completely new technologies, which is one of the reasons I decided to move, but it's kind of difficult to go from a place of 100% trust of your peers to uncertainty about how they perceive you. I've still been seeing some of my old team on weekends.

pitched 5y ago
> I've still been seeing some of my old team on weekends. I think this is the key to it right here. The ones you chose not to leave behind were friends, not peers. After almost a decade, they probably are more family than friend. The rest of them though? Not even close.

jjk166 5y ago

If you have strong connections with the people and you are leaving for reasons they can understand and respect, there's no reason to equate leaving the company with leaving the family. It's more like moving out of your parent's house - you won't see them as much, and it'll become more of an effort to maintain your relationships, but all that history is still there.

MrGilbert 5y ago
I like the "parent's house" analogy. Looking at it from this perspective, it might not be as bad as I picture it for myself.