4 ms·

Here we go again on Prop 13. If you lived through the madness, you would understand. (I can guarantee you were born after, I'm Mad as Hell!, by Howard Jarvis

Here we go again on Prop 13. If you lived through the madness, you would understand. (I can guarantee you were born after, I'm Mad as Hell!, by Howard Jarvis. Every year taxes went up. Every year politicians squandered away that money on pet projects. Middle class residents feared tax day. I saw my dad cry once, and yes it was when he opened that tax bill from the county. Prop 13 is the only real thing, in my lifetime, that truly helped the middleclass, and poor. Yes---things were generally better 30-40 years ago, but don't blame our messed up society on prop 13. Their are days where I feel we need to get rid of prop 13 for a few years, and let those that weren't born see what happens? I have never heard anyone who lived through that time criticize prop 13, with the exception of a college professor trying to reel in young students during a lecture, or an upcoming politician trying to get young voters. Instead of ragging on a prop that helps low/middleclass tax payers; I wish the young would go after how the wealthy around the world are buying up our homes. With a phone call, or email, and then have the gall to leave them vacant. To the young professional programmers. Let's be honest. You will be most likely shown the door around 50. If you happened to buy a house, you will eventually cherish prop 13.

pclmulqdq 5y ago
In most places other than California, the problem of greedy politicians who raise taxes and spend the money on corruption and crap is to vote out the politicians. If you feel unsafe at tax time, your elected leaders should feel unsafe on election day. It's really telling that Californians instead passed a terrible market-distorting ballot measure (which incentives hedge funds to buy properties to avoid the tax being readjusted again and pushes up prices so that nobody other than a hedge fund could afford them). If you're worried about affordability of houses, prop 13 (combined with NIMBYism and restrictive zoning laws in cities) is one of the main reasons why they are unaffordable. It sounds like it didn't even register to Californians that maybe they should have voted for the other guy for a little while.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  I've given up arguing. I truly think some people just don't learn from history, and look for easy targets. Targets they don't truly understand, but come of the tongue easily? I would love to bar hedge funds, and wealthy non-citizen foreigners from buying our homes. Put it into a Proposition, and you got my vote. I have tried to tell young people how bad it was before prop 13, but I guess it's an easy target. On my block, we have three homes out of twenty that are benefiting in a large way over prop 13 protections. Two of those homes rent rooms out to tenants. The rest of my wealthy neighbors don't need to worry about property taxes, or roommates. The wealthy do not rent out rooms. They can pick up and leave whenever they want. So a large portion on my neighbors are paying not being served by prop 13, nor do they seem to need it. In closing, and I'm getting tired of defending a prop, if CA residents ever lose their rational minds, and repeal prop 13; you got what you asked for. The wealthy, and Blackwater hedge fund types would love to snatch up those homes, and politicians would like those war chests they used to have access to in the 70's.
  - evancox100 5y ago
    So you’re saying if property taxes go up that hedge funds and investors would be more likely to buy property? That wealthy people will hold more properties when the carrying costs are higher?
- fossuser 5y ago
  Old homeowners that benefit from prop13 don’t care and I can understand why. If you’re able to own properties and pay relatively no tax on property that’s worth 10x what you paid for it that’s an insane win. It also lets you vote to restrict supply even further to preserve “neighborhood character” and drive prices up even higher with no consequence. Only new people get screwed. Their own kids maybe, but they can just pass the house down and capture that wealth for generations. Meanwhile, new owners pay insane housing prices and fund the town via their actual market value property tax, while old owners leech this value and play victim. It’s a massive wealth transfer from young to old. With such an extreme incentive structure it’s no surprise the rationalizations of it are similarly extreme. I wouldn’t care so much if they didn’t consistently lobby to restrict new housing supply - but of course they will because the incentives are such that there is zero downside and only upside for them to do so. It’s frustrating to listen to someone who bought a house for 300k and pays $300 a month on property tax whine when that house is now worth $3M and their neighbor had to pay $4M for a similar property and $4k per month in taxes. You won the lottery and then warped policy to your benefit, at least be gracious about it.
evancox100 5y ago
The simple way to protect individual homeowners is to limit their property tax increases while they are living in that property. This is what we do in Texas, it is by no means perfect and things can still increase quite a bit (10% / year), but you could put that ceiling as low as you like.

pclmulqdq 5y ago

In most places other than California, the problem of greedy politicians who raise taxes and spend the money on corruption and crap is to vote out the politicians. If you feel unsafe at tax time, your elected leaders should feel unsafe on election day. It's really telling that Californians instead passed a terrible market-distorting ballot measure (which incentives hedge funds to buy properties to avoid the tax being readjusted again and pushes up prices so that nobody other than a hedge fund could afford them). If you're worried about affordability of houses, prop 13 (combined with NIMBYism and restrictive zoning laws in cities) is one of the main reasons why they are unaffordable. It sounds like it didn't even register to Californians that maybe they should have voted for the other guy for a little while.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
I've given up arguing. I truly think some people just don't learn from history, and look for easy targets. Targets they don't truly understand, but come of the tongue easily? I would love to bar hedge funds, and wealthy non-citizen foreigners from buying our homes. Put it into a Proposition, and you got my vote. I have tried to tell young people how bad it was before prop 13, but I guess it's an easy target. On my block, we have three homes out of twenty that are benefiting in a large way over prop 13 protections. Two of those homes rent rooms out to tenants. The rest of my wealthy neighbors don't need to worry about property taxes, or roommates. The wealthy do not rent out rooms. They can pick up and leave whenever they want. So a large portion on my neighbors are paying not being served by prop 13, nor do they seem to need it. In closing, and I'm getting tired of defending a prop, if CA residents ever lose their rational minds, and repeal prop 13; you got what you asked for. The wealthy, and Blackwater hedge fund types would love to snatch up those homes, and politicians would like those war chests they used to have access to in the 70's.
- evancox100 5y ago
  So you’re saying if property taxes go up that hedge funds and investors would be more likely to buy property? That wealthy people will hold more properties when the carrying costs are higher?
fossuser 5y ago
Old homeowners that benefit from prop13 don’t care and I can understand why. If you’re able to own properties and pay relatively no tax on property that’s worth 10x what you paid for it that’s an insane win. It also lets you vote to restrict supply even further to preserve “neighborhood character” and drive prices up even higher with no consequence. Only new people get screwed. Their own kids maybe, but they can just pass the house down and capture that wealth for generations. Meanwhile, new owners pay insane housing prices and fund the town via their actual market value property tax, while old owners leech this value and play victim. It’s a massive wealth transfer from young to old. With such an extreme incentive structure it’s no surprise the rationalizations of it are similarly extreme. I wouldn’t care so much if they didn’t consistently lobby to restrict new housing supply - but of course they will because the incentives are such that there is zero downside and only upside for them to do so. It’s frustrating to listen to someone who bought a house for 300k and pays $300 a month on property tax whine when that house is now worth $3M and their neighbor had to pay $4M for a similar property and $4k per month in taxes. You won the lottery and then warped policy to your benefit, at least be gracious about it.

evancox100 5y ago

The simple way to protect individual homeowners is to limit their property tax increases while they are living in that property. This is what we do in Texas, it is by no means perfect and things can still increase quite a bit (10% / year), but you could put that ceiling as low as you like.