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Would you agree that gambling addiction is real? I would argue that internet addiction is more like that. Posting one more time to chase social media likes se

by skohan 5y ago

Would you agree that gambling addiction is real? I would argue that internet addiction is more like that. Posting one more time to chase social media likes seems to hack the brain's reward system in a similar way as putting one more coin in the slot machine to try to get a big payout. I would argue that gambling addiction is not a simple "failure of self control" - the pathology is consistent enough that I believe that it's a special kind of stimulus, such that some people will not be able to resist it if they are predisposed to fall victim to it. The same way a smoker will become agitated and distressed if they can't have their first cigarette in the morning, a gambling addict will feel the same if they can't log into their online poker site. In other words, it's still a chemical addiction, it's just that the chemicals are endogenous, created by your brain as the result of a behavior rather than coming from something you put in your body.

deleted 5y ago
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denton-scratch 5y ago
I don't think gambling is an addiction. I suppose I could be convinced that gambling is sufficiently similar to (e.g.) alcohol addiction that withdrawal can be a serious medical problem without treatment. But I haven't heard that yet. I think nicotine addiction is a thing; but as a smoker myself, I think the addiction aspect is overblown. The agitation and distress you mention can last for months, or even years; that's what I'd call "craving". but physical withdrawal takes 72 hours (roughly), and is never very severe - it's mainly shakiness, aches, sweats, and fluctations in body temperature. That's if you've got it really bad. Addicts, smokers and gamblers all get cravings. I suppose sex addicts do as well; perhaps there is even a set of people who have cravings for Rum Baba. Some people apparently get their dopamine high from fighting; I don't expect anyone from the gambling-addict or sex-addict groups to jump up and say that addiction to fighting really is an addiction. I'm told that joggers feel distress when they break their ankle, and can no longer jog. Sorry, but I 'm not prepared to call that "jogging addiction". I'm afraid I'm not at this time prepared to accept that dopamine addiction is a thing. Dopamine is released into the brain routinely, by "normal" people who neither smoke nor gamble. Dopamine withdrawal never results in life-threatening symptoms like seizures. Ergo, withdrawal from real addictions is not the same as dopamine withdrawal.
- skohan 5y ago
  I don't know why you are conflating addiction with life-threatening physical withdrawal. Gambling addiction is categorized as an addiction according to the DSM, and no definition of addiction that I know of, clinical or colloquial, limits the definition of addiction to only substances which result in a life-threatening withdrawal. I think the term you are searching for is chemical dependency. In university, I worked in a lab studying the biological mechanisms of addiction for a couple of years. There is a fairly well understood relationship between dopaminergic release in the nucleus accumbens and the formation of behavioral patterns. This can be induced reliably with certain drugs, like stimulants, which chemically induce the activity of dopamine receptors. It can also be reliably induced endogenously, using a stochastic reward schedule. In other words, if you put a rat in a cage and give him a lever which produces a food pellet every time he presses it, he will eat until he is full, and then he will stop. If you give him a lever which produces a pellet randomly, he will press it all day, even to the point where he eats past the point of satiety, and forgets to drink water. This response to a stochastic reward schedule has been demonstrated in all kinds of animal models, and also in humans. It's also exactly the reason why slot machines are compelling and habit forming. You don't have to look very hard to see how a stochastic reward schedule is applied to things like mobile games, and the design of social media user journeys. Gambling addiction is real, and social media is designed to be addictive.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    I think I clarified a bit up-comment: I'm concerned with terms becoming looser; perhaps a bit obsessed. I'm not fussed what the DSM says, especially about anything touching on psychology. I have heard that it's decisions carry a lot of weight in insurance and pharma circles. Also: - Suppose that there are drugs that cause pleasure by activating dopamine receptors; and - Suppose that certain behaviours (meditation, responding to stochastic triggers) would do the same; well, that would say nothing about the meaning of the word "addicted". I really don't mean to conflate anything, nor diminish the problems of people with non-chemical addictions. I just regret that a word that had one meaning now seems to have acquired many.

by skohan 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

denton-scratch 5y ago

I don't think gambling is an addiction. I suppose I could be convinced that gambling is sufficiently similar to (e.g.) alcohol addiction that withdrawal can be a serious medical problem without treatment. But I haven't heard that yet. I think nicotine addiction is a thing; but as a smoker myself, I think the addiction aspect is overblown. The agitation and distress you mention can last for months, or even years; that's what I'd call "craving". but physical withdrawal takes 72 hours (roughly), and is never very severe - it's mainly shakiness, aches, sweats, and fluctations in body temperature. That's if you've got it really bad. Addicts, smokers and gamblers all get cravings. I suppose sex addicts do as well; perhaps there is even a set of people who have cravings for Rum Baba. Some people apparently get their dopamine high from fighting; I don't expect anyone from the gambling-addict or sex-addict groups to jump up and say that addiction to fighting really is an addiction. I'm told that joggers feel distress when they break their ankle, and can no longer jog. Sorry, but I 'm not prepared to call that "jogging addiction". I'm afraid I'm not at this time prepared to accept that dopamine addiction is a thing. Dopamine is released into the brain routinely, by "normal" people who neither smoke nor gamble. Dopamine withdrawal never results in life-threatening symptoms like seizures. Ergo, withdrawal from real addictions is not the same as dopamine withdrawal.

skohan 5y ago
I don't know why you are conflating addiction with life-threatening physical withdrawal. Gambling addiction is categorized as an addiction according to the DSM, and no definition of addiction that I know of, clinical or colloquial, limits the definition of addiction to only substances which result in a life-threatening withdrawal. I think the term you are searching for is chemical dependency. In university, I worked in a lab studying the biological mechanisms of addiction for a couple of years. There is a fairly well understood relationship between dopaminergic release in the nucleus accumbens and the formation of behavioral patterns. This can be induced reliably with certain drugs, like stimulants, which chemically induce the activity of dopamine receptors. It can also be reliably induced endogenously, using a stochastic reward schedule. In other words, if you put a rat in a cage and give him a lever which produces a food pellet every time he presses it, he will eat until he is full, and then he will stop. If you give him a lever which produces a pellet randomly, he will press it all day, even to the point where he eats past the point of satiety, and forgets to drink water. This response to a stochastic reward schedule has been demonstrated in all kinds of animal models, and also in humans. It's also exactly the reason why slot machines are compelling and habit forming. You don't have to look very hard to see how a stochastic reward schedule is applied to things like mobile games, and the design of social media user journeys. Gambling addiction is real, and social media is designed to be addictive.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  I think I clarified a bit up-comment: I'm concerned with terms becoming looser; perhaps a bit obsessed. I'm not fussed what the DSM says, especially about anything touching on psychology. I have heard that it's decisions carry a lot of weight in insurance and pharma circles. Also: - Suppose that there are drugs that cause pleasure by activating dopamine receptors; and - Suppose that certain behaviours (meditation, responding to stochastic triggers) would do the same; well, that would say nothing about the meaning of the word "addicted". I really don't mean to conflate anything, nor diminish the problems of people with non-chemical addictions. I just regret that a word that had one meaning now seems to have acquired many.