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I'm happy about this and I used to be for Prop 22. After I retired I drove for a year from Aug 2019 to Aug 2020 (I quit because Pandemic.) I didn't work full ti

I'm happy about this and I used to be for Prop 22. After I retired I drove for a year from Aug 2019 to Aug 2020 (I quit because Pandemic.) I didn't work full time, but maybe 20 - 25 hours a week. I did 2000 rides. I had a fun, met a lot of interesting people, and got to drive in many cities in California. I loved the flexibility of the job. However when I added it all up, I netted about $6,000, which works out to about $6/hr or $3 per ride. This includes tips. A lot of people don't tip since when Uber started up they said ppl didn't have to. Now I am of the opinion that the ride share companies should pay closer to a living wage so drivers don't have to practically live in their cars. Not everyone can be retired taking joy rides like I did.

syshum 5y ago
Uber is not sustainable now. All that will happen is A. Ride-sharing collapses and everyone returns to the taxi model B. Prices goes WAY WAY up, less people can afford it likey resulting in A C. Every is classified as an employee and drivers loose all flexibility or most flexibility. No more working for multiple app, no more infinite flex time. As a employee you would be exclusive to one app and have a set shift and section People seem to think they can get cheap fares, infinite flexibility and ultra wages... Not likey
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > C. Every is classified as an employee and drivers loose all flexibility or most flexibility. No more working for multiple app, no more infinite flex time. As a employee you would be exclusive to one app and have a set shift and section This would be a choice the ride-sharing companies would be making, not a logical necessity. They could pay drivers a minimum wage to be on-call for whatever time-period was agreed upon between the company and the driver, and neither demand exclusivity outside of those periods, nor demand a minimum number of hours per week be worked. You can have more than one job without being a contractor. e.g. The driver says "I want to work from 3PM to 5PM today." The app says "LOL, no, too many drivers today, try again tomorrow" or "How about 2PM to 4PM instead" or "Perfect, you're booked." The app could also solicit drivers for shifts well ahead of time within a baseline of predicted demand, guarantee that drivers be offered X hours of shifts sometime between A o'clock and B o'clock a week ahead of time, and/or demand that drivers take at least Y hours of shifts (between the hours of A o'clock and B o'clock) if they want to continue to be offered X hours of shifts. If they were really forward-thinking, the rideshare companies could work on making their benefits compatible with each other; maybe have them managed by an employee union.
LadyCailin 5y ago
Hopefully you use this as feedback for future voting decisions, to use empathy beforehand, not only after you've learned it yourself the "hard" way.
- okareaman 5y ago
  I'm a rational person who changes their mind once new information comes in.
  - LadyCailin 5y ago
    Good! And don’t take me the wrong way, good on you for changing your opinion. But my point is to actively have empathy, and actively try to think about other people beforehand, rather than only after any damage has potentially been done. Regardless, not everyone will even learn even when confronted with new data, so again, good on you for doing that.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Read his response (up and over) to me. He seems to have been actively driving at the time (I too misread his first post), and so it wasn't a lack of empathy but his own firsthand experiences that both led him to support, then oppose, Prop 22.
      - okareaman 5y ago
        Yes, I liked the freedom and flexibility of contract work so I supported 22, then did my taxes and found I wasn't making nearly as much money as I thought I was. I didn't mind making $6/hr when it was fun, but it became very much not fun after the pandemic got rolling because no one wanted to talk with a mask on and some passengers wouldn't wear a mask. It became a hassle.
  - motoxpro 5y ago
    I think a more accurate way to put this is "I'm a rational person who only values first hand experience and not the experience of others." There are/were SO many account of people who had your EXACT same experience. I'm not sure how those didn't have any weight.
HWR_14 5y ago
Why were you in favor of it before experiencing it but then you changed your mind? Your numbers are similar to other drivers' and have been well-publicized for years. Did you not research the numbers? Find bad information? Not care about an experience you didn't have? Just assumed the free market was taking care of it? If that sounds bad, I'm honestly wondering. I'm just not sure how else to phrase the question, because I've been opposed to the ideas behind Prop 22 since before it was suggested and have a hard time wrapping my head around people who oppose it unless they do so out of pure self interest.
- okareaman 5y ago
  A few things: It wasn't until I did my taxes that the true cost of running and maintaining my car became clear, and I wasn't really paying attention because I really enjoyed the job and didn't care because on the surface I was getting good money put into my account. Then the unions were running absurd ads against Prop 22 claiming drivers were being abused (I didn't feel abused) and ignoring the fact that becoming an employee would negate many of the freedoms of the job I enjoyed. I felt unions were trying to mess up a good thing for their own ends.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Ah, so you, as a driver, opposed Prop 22 until you did your end of year accounting? If so, that completely changes how I (and I suspect others) read your comment. How I read it was that you opposed Prop 22 as a rider/bystander and only once you started driving for Uber changed your mind.
    - okareaman 5y ago
      > Ah, so you, as a driver, opposed Prop 22 until you did your end of year accounting? Yes, that's right. And I thought the drivers complaining about not making money were not being smart about it by cancelling rides and refusing to go to the airport. I assumed I was being rewarded by the scheduling algorithm while they were not.
randyrand 5y ago
Were you driving a nicer car? those are some bad numbers…
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > Were you driving a nicer car? > those are some bad numbers… Please give us the net profit Uber and Lyft drivers make on average a year in California, with sources (AKA not Uber or Lyft), instead of disparaging the parent's testimony.
Frost1x 5y ago
If the vast majority of the cost is labor and your overall price to consumer is low, the people doing the work aren't being paid. It's pretty simple. I like cheap rides but I also don't like taking advantage of people. Unfortunately we live in a culture where everyone should take advantage of everyone, least ye be left behind. I'm curious if your cost estimates even include time spent maintaining your core business capital (your vehicle): additional oil changes, additional maintenance, refueling times, wear and tear on tires and so on. AAA and the government provide some average costs per mile but you can deviate significantly from these depending on the vehicle and specific circumstances. If you have a fleet of vehicles or are estimating costs to you for a large number of vehicles, then it's good to use. If you're only doing your own vehicle, its not necessarily that accurate.
- okareaman 5y ago
  As I said in another reply > It wasn't until I did my taxes that the true cost of running and maintaining my car became clear
perryizgr8 5y ago
Even if it is not a good deal for drivers, there is no reason to involve the government. Drivers can do something else with their time. Uber will have to pay better if enough drivers feel it is not worth it. An enterprising driver can even decide to start up his own Uber. One that pays better to drivers.

syshum 5y ago

Uber is not sustainable now. All that will happen is A. Ride-sharing collapses and everyone returns to the taxi model B. Prices goes WAY WAY up, less people can afford it likey resulting in A C. Every is classified as an employee and drivers loose all flexibility or most flexibility. No more working for multiple app, no more infinite flex time. As a employee you would be exclusive to one app and have a set shift and section People seem to think they can get cheap fares, infinite flexibility and ultra wages... Not likey

pessimizer 5y ago
> C. Every is classified as an employee and drivers loose all flexibility or most flexibility. No more working for multiple app, no more infinite flex time. As a employee you would be exclusive to one app and have a set shift and section This would be a choice the ride-sharing companies would be making, not a logical necessity. They could pay drivers a minimum wage to be on-call for whatever time-period was agreed upon between the company and the driver, and neither demand exclusivity outside of those periods, nor demand a minimum number of hours per week be worked. You can have more than one job without being a contractor. e.g. The driver says "I want to work from 3PM to 5PM today." The app says "LOL, no, too many drivers today, try again tomorrow" or "How about 2PM to 4PM instead" or "Perfect, you're booked." The app could also solicit drivers for shifts well ahead of time within a baseline of predicted demand, guarantee that drivers be offered X hours of shifts sometime between A o'clock and B o'clock a week ahead of time, and/or demand that drivers take at least Y hours of shifts (between the hours of A o'clock and B o'clock) if they want to continue to be offered X hours of shifts. If they were really forward-thinking, the rideshare companies could work on making their benefits compatible with each other; maybe have them managed by an employee union.

LadyCailin 5y ago

Hopefully you use this as feedback for future voting decisions, to use empathy beforehand, not only after you've learned it yourself the "hard" way.

okareaman 5y ago
I'm a rational person who changes their mind once new information comes in.
- LadyCailin 5y ago
  Good! And don’t take me the wrong way, good on you for changing your opinion. But my point is to actively have empathy, and actively try to think about other people beforehand, rather than only after any damage has potentially been done. Regardless, not everyone will even learn even when confronted with new data, so again, good on you for doing that.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Read his response (up and over) to me. He seems to have been actively driving at the time (I too misread his first post), and so it wasn't a lack of empathy but his own firsthand experiences that both led him to support, then oppose, Prop 22.
    - okareaman 5y ago
      Yes, I liked the freedom and flexibility of contract work so I supported 22, then did my taxes and found I wasn't making nearly as much money as I thought I was. I didn't mind making $6/hr when it was fun, but it became very much not fun after the pandemic got rolling because no one wanted to talk with a mask on and some passengers wouldn't wear a mask. It became a hassle.
- motoxpro 5y ago
  I think a more accurate way to put this is "I'm a rational person who only values first hand experience and not the experience of others." There are/were SO many account of people who had your EXACT same experience. I'm not sure how those didn't have any weight.

HWR_14 5y ago

Why were you in favor of it before experiencing it but then you changed your mind? Your numbers are similar to other drivers' and have been well-publicized for years. Did you not research the numbers? Find bad information? Not care about an experience you didn't have? Just assumed the free market was taking care of it? If that sounds bad, I'm honestly wondering. I'm just not sure how else to phrase the question, because I've been opposed to the ideas behind Prop 22 since before it was suggested and have a hard time wrapping my head around people who oppose it unless they do so out of pure self interest.

okareaman 5y ago
A few things: It wasn't until I did my taxes that the true cost of running and maintaining my car became clear, and I wasn't really paying attention because I really enjoyed the job and didn't care because on the surface I was getting good money put into my account. Then the unions were running absurd ads against Prop 22 claiming drivers were being abused (I didn't feel abused) and ignoring the fact that becoming an employee would negate many of the freedoms of the job I enjoyed. I felt unions were trying to mess up a good thing for their own ends.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Ah, so you, as a driver, opposed Prop 22 until you did your end of year accounting? If so, that completely changes how I (and I suspect others) read your comment. How I read it was that you opposed Prop 22 as a rider/bystander and only once you started driving for Uber changed your mind.
  - okareaman 5y ago
    > Ah, so you, as a driver, opposed Prop 22 until you did your end of year accounting? Yes, that's right. And I thought the drivers complaining about not making money were not being smart about it by cancelling rides and refusing to go to the airport. I assumed I was being rewarded by the scheduling algorithm while they were not.

randyrand 5y ago

Were you driving a nicer car? those are some bad numbers…

throw_m239339 5y ago
> Were you driving a nicer car? > those are some bad numbers… Please give us the net profit Uber and Lyft drivers make on average a year in California, with sources (AKA not Uber or Lyft), instead of disparaging the parent's testimony.

Frost1x 5y ago

If the vast majority of the cost is labor and your overall price to consumer is low, the people doing the work aren't being paid. It's pretty simple. I like cheap rides but I also don't like taking advantage of people. Unfortunately we live in a culture where everyone should take advantage of everyone, least ye be left behind. I'm curious if your cost estimates even include time spent maintaining your core business capital (your vehicle): additional oil changes, additional maintenance, refueling times, wear and tear on tires and so on. AAA and the government provide some average costs per mile but you can deviate significantly from these depending on the vehicle and specific circumstances. If you have a fleet of vehicles or are estimating costs to you for a large number of vehicles, then it's good to use. If you're only doing your own vehicle, its not necessarily that accurate.

okareaman 5y ago
As I said in another reply > It wasn't until I did my taxes that the true cost of running and maintaining my car became clear

perryizgr8 5y ago

Even if it is not a good deal for drivers, there is no reason to involve the government. Drivers can do something else with their time. Uber will have to pay better if enough drivers feel it is not worth it. An enterprising driver can even decide to start up his own Uber. One that pays better to drivers.