5 ms·

Both Microsoft and Apple are treating users like they don't care now. And probably 99.99999% of the users don't. Today you have to run Linux to control your co

Both Microsoft and Apple are treating users like they don't care now. And probably 99.99999% of the users don't. Today you have to run Linux to control your computer yourself.

omginternets 5y ago
What's the state of running Linux on Mac hardware these days?
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  On Intel: Works pretty well. No longer a need to have special ISOs like Ubuntu used to have. You do have to turn off the "secure boot" on newer systems with T2 chip (using the startup security utility in recovery mode) On M1: Still in progress. Linux boots but the kinks have to be worked out. Not production quality yet.
  - omginternets 5y ago
    >On Intel: Works pretty well. Oh, cool! I have one of the last Macbook pros with an Intel chip, so it sounds like I'm probably in the "secure boot" category. Does the trackpad work well?
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Good question, I haven't tried it on one that recent. But on my older ones it worked fine. Even gestures. Not as smooth as on macOS though.
Razengan 5y ago
> Today you have to run Linux to control your computer yourself. To control your operating system. Your hardware will still have shit like IME and whatnot.
hulitu 5y ago
In soviet russia the computer controls you. It's funny to see Apple with 1984 ad and Microsoft which said that GPL is communistic apply the same tactics as the KGB and Soviet politburo. I think that people never learn because they are so happy to embrace the future.
- geofft 5y ago
  In Soviet Russia the government force computer to control you. In capitalist America you freely choose to let a small number of corporations sell you computers which control you. There's a big difference! (In theory, at least.)
danieldk 5y ago
Apple does typically have release notes and an overview of fixed vulnerabilities for releases. I think it is likely that 11.5.2 fixes a large vulnerability and they will only disclose more information once most people have updated to 11.5.2. And/or they are still preparing updates for Mojave/Catalina.
nbzso 5y ago
No way. Ask HN "new generation" to tell you, Apple and Microsoft are taking care of you to feel safe and protecting the children at the same time. Linux desktop sucks. It is broken. I found out that this "brokenness" is what I expect to have. To modify and optimize my UX.
- mlac 5y ago
  I’ll bite. I’m not necessarily the new generation, but I understand the viewpoint you’re arguing against. I am the on the more technical side, making me the help desk for friends and family. For the vast majority of people, the safest and easiest thing to hand them is a chromebook. If they want more capability or better hardware, then they will step up into OS X or windows. They don’t care about the UX until they have to care about the UX because it’s not working the way it was intended. Then they want to fix it back to the way it was (unhide icons or the task bar). They don’t grasp how computers should work, and while I’ve tried explaining, it just doesn’t take. So they remember how to get to email by clicking icons. 99% of people for casual use would just be confused if you dropped them into a command line. There’s a reason things weren’t as popular before we made advances like we have today. So - for the vast majority of users - an upgrade is an annoyance and downtime that is there during the 10-30 minutes a day they may need the machine (not the 10-30 minutes they are taking a break from the machine). They don’t understand, and don’t care about, the security updates. Apple and Microsoft and Samsung and Google have no obligation to you, an edge customer, to create a lot more opportunities to screw things up for the vast majority of users who would just get confused. They have no obligation to enable users to perform illegal activity on their hardware. And they can put whatever they want to in the user agreement for their hardware and software. Your option as a consumer is to not buy it. You can complain about it, but that ship has sailed, as the vast majority of users don’t even understand the complaint and the potential implication. But no. If you want a UX that’s fully configurable and secure and has privacy protections in place and places emphasis on security over convenience, a private, cloud focused, company like Google or Microsoft or Apple is not the right tree to be barking up.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  It's not broken at all... At least not for me, being a user for several decades now. I use it at work while billing quite a lot of money so if it was breaking, I would have a massive problem. :) I would say this though - the machine you run it on matters. The hardware matters. Some hardware runs great, other hardware will give you problems. This is due to driver support either being good or bad, not Linux itself, but the distinction is meaningless for the user. Use a thinkpad, with Pop OS, to get you started. It will just work.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
Same as with the error messages. Almost every MS app has removed the messages that actually tell you what's going wrong and replace it with something like "Oops!! Something went wrong!" that tells you absolutely nothing. And some stupid "funny" picture.

Both Microsoft and Apple are treating users like they don't care now. And probably 99.99999% of the users don't. Today you have to run Linux to control your computer yourself.

omginternets 5y ago

What's the state of running Linux on Mac hardware these days?

GekkePrutser 5y ago
On Intel: Works pretty well. No longer a need to have special ISOs like Ubuntu used to have. You do have to turn off the "secure boot" on newer systems with T2 chip (using the startup security utility in recovery mode) On M1: Still in progress. Linux boots but the kinks have to be worked out. Not production quality yet.
- omginternets 5y ago
  >On Intel: Works pretty well. Oh, cool! I have one of the last Macbook pros with an Intel chip, so it sounds like I'm probably in the "secure boot" category. Does the trackpad work well?
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Good question, I haven't tried it on one that recent. But on my older ones it worked fine. Even gestures. Not as smooth as on macOS though.

Razengan 5y ago

> Today you have to run Linux to control your computer yourself. To control your operating system. Your hardware will still have shit like IME and whatnot.

hulitu 5y ago

In soviet russia the computer controls you. It's funny to see Apple with 1984 ad and Microsoft which said that GPL is communistic apply the same tactics as the KGB and Soviet politburo. I think that people never learn because they are so happy to embrace the future.

geofft 5y ago
In Soviet Russia the government force computer to control you. In capitalist America you freely choose to let a small number of corporations sell you computers which control you. There's a big difference! (In theory, at least.)

danieldk 5y ago

Apple does typically have release notes and an overview of fixed vulnerabilities for releases. I think it is likely that 11.5.2 fixes a large vulnerability and they will only disclose more information once most people have updated to 11.5.2. And/or they are still preparing updates for Mojave/Catalina.

nbzso 5y ago

No way. Ask HN "new generation" to tell you, Apple and Microsoft are taking care of you to feel safe and protecting the children at the same time. Linux desktop sucks. It is broken. I found out that this "brokenness" is what I expect to have. To modify and optimize my UX.

mlac 5y ago
I’ll bite. I’m not necessarily the new generation, but I understand the viewpoint you’re arguing against. I am the on the more technical side, making me the help desk for friends and family. For the vast majority of people, the safest and easiest thing to hand them is a chromebook. If they want more capability or better hardware, then they will step up into OS X or windows. They don’t care about the UX until they have to care about the UX because it’s not working the way it was intended. Then they want to fix it back to the way it was (unhide icons or the task bar). They don’t grasp how computers should work, and while I’ve tried explaining, it just doesn’t take. So they remember how to get to email by clicking icons. 99% of people for casual use would just be confused if you dropped them into a command line. There’s a reason things weren’t as popular before we made advances like we have today. So - for the vast majority of users - an upgrade is an annoyance and downtime that is there during the 10-30 minutes a day they may need the machine (not the 10-30 minutes they are taking a break from the machine). They don’t understand, and don’t care about, the security updates. Apple and Microsoft and Samsung and Google have no obligation to you, an edge customer, to create a lot more opportunities to screw things up for the vast majority of users who would just get confused. They have no obligation to enable users to perform illegal activity on their hardware. And they can put whatever they want to in the user agreement for their hardware and software. Your option as a consumer is to not buy it. You can complain about it, but that ship has sailed, as the vast majority of users don’t even understand the complaint and the potential implication. But no. If you want a UX that’s fully configurable and secure and has privacy protections in place and places emphasis on security over convenience, a private, cloud focused, company like Google or Microsoft or Apple is not the right tree to be barking up.
peakaboo 5y ago
It's not broken at all... At least not for me, being a user for several decades now. I use it at work while billing quite a lot of money so if it was breaking, I would have a massive problem. :) I would say this though - the machine you run it on matters. The hardware matters. Some hardware runs great, other hardware will give you problems. This is due to driver support either being good or bad, not Linux itself, but the distinction is meaningless for the user. Use a thinkpad, with Pop OS, to get you started. It will just work.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

Same as with the error messages. Almost every MS app has removed the messages that actually tell you what's going wrong and replace it with something like "Oops!! Something went wrong!" that tells you absolutely nothing. And some stupid "funny" picture.