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But why stop there, if it is even possible to? Hundreds or thousands of species of mosquito, can you genetically target a single one for eradication? And if suc

But why stop there, if it is even possible to? Hundreds or thousands of species of mosquito, can you genetically target a single one for eradication? And if successful, it's easy to imagine the nuances of different species getting lost in government policies. Compounded by the fact that, maybe aegypti and malaria mosquitos represent an equilibrium that, if disturbed by their genocide...would leave a pathogen-vector vacuum that could be filled by a formerly regressive species that could spread worse pathogens. I think we should play with treatments that affect things that have less moving parts and that we roughly know how to control (like our own bodies, roughly), rather than trying to do 'ecosystem' engineering where we have very little knowledge (or it seems critical caution, from proponents) of how it will be affected in a knock-on sense, which could be disastrous. Maybe it is a good idea but the consequences of it going wrong are disastrous. Like the Cane Toads that were introduced to Australia to wipe out an insect preying on sugar cane, that then became an endemic threat. But we're not talking about it just affecting flora and fauna, we're talking about something that could affect us. The cure might end up being worse than the disease. Apart from the equilibrium dynamics, vampiric mosquitos also play a role in horizontal gene transfer and end up actually conveying immunity to the human population for various zoonotic pathogens that would otherwise spread to us: they help our immune systems evolve, and also contribute to evolution of humans.

bbarnett 5y ago
Well thought out, informative. But still, Kill them all. Noseeums too. I literally cannot be outside my house 3 months of the year unless coated in deet, or head to toe netting. I mean literal clouds of them, and the noseeums in my ears, eyes, death. Death to them all. If all of humanity expires for their lack, I care not, if we take them with us. Death to them all.
- krasi0 5y ago
  In some parts of the world, the suffering that you describe already lasts 9+ months of the year. Mosquito swarms literally eat you alive while outside.
- _Microft 5y ago
  Then, maybe, you are living in a place where nobody should have lived in the first place. Population in areas that are not really suited for us is a more widespread problem than we like to admit.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Which are the places people “should” have lived in the first place? Presumably places where clothing and shelter weren’t necessary to survive?
  - prawn 5y ago
    Through a number of months each year at my house, shaded gardening at almost any time of the day, or sitting outside for a drink with friends in the afternoon, is a constant battle with mosquitoes. It's a largely dry and urban area but all it takes is a neighbour with an uncovered watertank or still pond and it is quickly frustrating. It's not tropical or swampy. No lakes. Barely have creeks. And Aboriginal populations were here long before settlers arrived centuries ago to displace them.
    - yann2 5y ago
      Find and grow the right plants (they cant stand the smell of quite a few). I cant remember the names but I remember my grandmom used to grow a specific bunch around sitout areas and windows. If that doesnt work try incense.
      - prawn 5y ago
        Looked up the plants people typically mention and we already have those. We often use mosquito coils/incense. Helps slightly but isn't practical if you're just gardening in a shaded area and mosquitoes hassle you constantly. Still, could be worse - could have biting midges in my garden.
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    Erm. Parasites which feed upon humans, were with us as we evolved. Mosquitoes, noseeums have been with us from the start! If you live in a place without them, you are living where humans shouldn't, for mosquitoes thrive in environments where humans thrive.
- graderjs 5y ago
  Haha, this is quite funny. I feel you must live in Florida, but I have no idea. First time to hear about these Noseeums, how are their bites compared to mosquito?
  - prawn 5y ago
    I've encountered unbearable mosquito scenarios in Florida, but also Colorado, Asia, Australia, etc. Recently in Broome, Western Australia, a brisk walk wouldn't stop them from biting through clothes - my legs were riddled with bites and my scalp was covered with their bodies and my blood. That was on par with the Everglades in Florida. Horrific. But noseeums (biting midge or sand fly in Australia) are possibly worse. You don't see, hear or really feel them biting you, but then later the itch endures for a couple of weeks afterwards. Last couple of times, I thought often that having my skin surgically removed would be preferable to another week of the itching.
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    Quebec, Canada. Noseeums, as someone else said, are near invisible. They leave rashes, suck blood, can transmit disease. The ones here (there are countless species) leave rashes which take weeks to go away. If you've ever been bit by a deer fly, it's the same thing, except these are super tiny. They literally use their jaws to slice a hole in your skin, and suck the blood up. They also love to suck water and salt from your eyes, so they land, but often get stuck and die because of you blinking. Then you end up with all these dead insects in your eyes. They love to fly in your ear, I imagine ear wax and the moistness attracts. They bite there too. So now you have rashes inside your ear canal, and insect crawling in there. In spring, they attack in droves. Hundreds or even thousands buzzing around your head. If you stand outside my house, in the spring, just stand still and stare ahead, within minutes they appear, and you are soon sightless for the sheer number of dead in your eyes. They need to be exterminated. I love birds more than most, but if 1/2 the bird species die, I'm ok with that, as long as noseeums do too.
    - chasd00 5y ago
      I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. - Aliens In Oklahoma my wife got bit by some kind of flying thing that left blood running down her leg.
- Foobar8568 5y ago
  Deet? Tiger mosquitoes in my home region don't care about it, I sprayed heavily my shoes and legs with Deet based repellent and within 5min, I had these fuckers trying to bite through my shoes! And I could see them feeding on mint flowers as well.
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    Wherever you live, please never visit here, I want no tiger mosquitoes hitching a ride.
  - yourapostasy 5y ago
    Try 3M Ultrathon. Or go 100% DEET if you haven't tried it already. I'll take the inevitable "oops, DEET causes horrible cancer" news report in the future for clouds of Asian Tiger mosquitoes surrounding but not landing on me, please.
    - Foobar8568 5y ago
      It was already 30%, so similar to the 3M one... http://www.srf.ch/content/download/10055635/115349210/version/3/file/MueckenMittelTestResultate.pdf http://www.srf.ch/content/download/10055635/115349210/versio... first one in this comparison.
- codingdave 5y ago
  Add some birdfeeders around your house, and if swallows start to build their nests on your home, let them. I live next to wetlands, but the birds eat the bugs. Swallows specifically eat over 10,000 mosquitoes a day, so if you get them established on your property, it makes a huge difference.
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    We have swallows, bats, and more dragonflies than you can imagine. Thanks for the suggest, but it is just hopeless.
  - zionic 5y ago
    While these kind of suggestions are no doubt intended to be helpful, they come off as ignorant to anyone who has lived in a mosquito-prone area. Short of living in an actual bat cave, you’ll never get the density of predators required to solve the mosquito problem.
    - krasi0 5y ago
      Of all the natural predators mentioned above, only dragonflies make a real difference. It's night and day in the same area depending on whether there's a healthy population of dragonflies nearby.
corty 5y ago
We are already wiping out in the order of a species a day, usually in an unplanned, "oops" fashion: https://naturalhistory.si.edu/education/teaching-resources/paleontology/extinction-over-time https://naturalhistory.si.edu/education/teaching-resources/p.... Killing a few more in a planned, methodical fashion after having evaluated their use and harm won't make a lot of difference. Any big "disturbance of the ecosystems" is either already occuring or will fix itself over time. I think the risks are minimal, because we are still alive after all the damage we did already.
- graderjs 5y ago
  No I think the difference is that they directly integrate with humans so much. Particularly with the human immune system, pathogen vectors and genetics. Because they suck our blood. It's a pretty unique parasitic relationship--and often the fate of species, both animal and plant, can turn on their parasitic relationships. Perhaps we are not paying the humble mosquito the dues we naturally owe it? If we press that lever, we might not be able to undo it, and the consequences might be far worse than we (in our limited individual understandings and imaginations, which seem to become even more limited when elaborated through the rubric of public policy) can right now possibly imagine. Sure, it sounds like fear-mongering, and it might be...if they really are useless. But are we so sure? Is it worth it to take that risk? Consider that air pollution kills ten times (10!) as many as mosquitos. Well, we should just eradicate all fossil fuels. Wipe them from the face of the Earth. But of course, we will not--why? because we see how integrated these disease producing fossil fuels are into our modern energy and supply chains. We see their utility in the 'gross anatomy' of our industrialized civilization clearly. But I think it is not widely appreciated the utility of the mosquito in the much more subtle, but more complex and numerous subtle anatomy of the networks of our ecological and bodily systems. Eradicating them is worse than (the incredibly horrid and stupid hypothetical idea of) say wiping out all gut bacteria in terms of damage, potentially. Anyone who seems eager to take that risk and has the gall to affect society like that with grand statements of "wipe them all out"-- I think is crazy and dangerous. The risk is too great. Let's find ways to cure/combat the illnesses that don't involve taking out a key transport system in the global biome. It's like saying because crazy people can send letter bombs and con-persons can send fraud, we must execute all postal employees and dismantle all courier companies, if they've ever been misused. Because the internet can carry viruses to your computer, we must sever all submarine cables, and tear down all cell towers. It's sort of a sickness, an overgrowth of desire to use the clever technical genetic tools we can develop to watch as we humans hold the fate of a whole race of things in our hands. Let's use those clever genetic tricks to fight disease not bring the entire infrastructure down, in a fit of intoxication with our own self-importance, finger on the button of destruction, in a rapture of obsession with our very human world-conquering mania.

bbarnett 5y ago

Well thought out, informative. But still, Kill them all. Noseeums too. I literally cannot be outside my house 3 months of the year unless coated in deet, or head to toe netting. I mean literal clouds of them, and the noseeums in my ears, eyes, death. Death to them all. If all of humanity expires for their lack, I care not, if we take them with us. Death to them all.

krasi0 5y ago
In some parts of the world, the suffering that you describe already lasts 9+ months of the year. Mosquito swarms literally eat you alive while outside.
_Microft 5y ago
Then, maybe, you are living in a place where nobody should have lived in the first place. Population in areas that are not really suited for us is a more widespread problem than we like to admit.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Which are the places people “should” have lived in the first place? Presumably places where clothing and shelter weren’t necessary to survive?
- prawn 5y ago
  Through a number of months each year at my house, shaded gardening at almost any time of the day, or sitting outside for a drink with friends in the afternoon, is a constant battle with mosquitoes. It's a largely dry and urban area but all it takes is a neighbour with an uncovered watertank or still pond and it is quickly frustrating. It's not tropical or swampy. No lakes. Barely have creeks. And Aboriginal populations were here long before settlers arrived centuries ago to displace them.
  - yann2 5y ago
    Find and grow the right plants (they cant stand the smell of quite a few). I cant remember the names but I remember my grandmom used to grow a specific bunch around sitout areas and windows. If that doesnt work try incense.
    - prawn 5y ago
      Looked up the plants people typically mention and we already have those. We often use mosquito coils/incense. Helps slightly but isn't practical if you're just gardening in a shaded area and mosquitoes hassle you constantly. Still, could be worse - could have biting midges in my garden.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  Erm. Parasites which feed upon humans, were with us as we evolved. Mosquitoes, noseeums have been with us from the start! If you live in a place without them, you are living where humans shouldn't, for mosquitoes thrive in environments where humans thrive.
graderjs 5y ago
Haha, this is quite funny. I feel you must live in Florida, but I have no idea. First time to hear about these Noseeums, how are their bites compared to mosquito?
- prawn 5y ago
  I've encountered unbearable mosquito scenarios in Florida, but also Colorado, Asia, Australia, etc. Recently in Broome, Western Australia, a brisk walk wouldn't stop them from biting through clothes - my legs were riddled with bites and my scalp was covered with their bodies and my blood. That was on par with the Everglades in Florida. Horrific. But noseeums (biting midge or sand fly in Australia) are possibly worse. You don't see, hear or really feel them biting you, but then later the itch endures for a couple of weeks afterwards. Last couple of times, I thought often that having my skin surgically removed would be preferable to another week of the itching.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  Quebec, Canada. Noseeums, as someone else said, are near invisible. They leave rashes, suck blood, can transmit disease. The ones here (there are countless species) leave rashes which take weeks to go away. If you've ever been bit by a deer fly, it's the same thing, except these are super tiny. They literally use their jaws to slice a hole in your skin, and suck the blood up. They also love to suck water and salt from your eyes, so they land, but often get stuck and die because of you blinking. Then you end up with all these dead insects in your eyes. They love to fly in your ear, I imagine ear wax and the moistness attracts. They bite there too. So now you have rashes inside your ear canal, and insect crawling in there. In spring, they attack in droves. Hundreds or even thousands buzzing around your head. If you stand outside my house, in the spring, just stand still and stare ahead, within minutes they appear, and you are soon sightless for the sheer number of dead in your eyes. They need to be exterminated. I love birds more than most, but if 1/2 the bird species die, I'm ok with that, as long as noseeums do too.
  - chasd00 5y ago
    I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. - Aliens In Oklahoma my wife got bit by some kind of flying thing that left blood running down her leg.
Foobar8568 5y ago
Deet? Tiger mosquitoes in my home region don't care about it, I sprayed heavily my shoes and legs with Deet based repellent and within 5min, I had these fuckers trying to bite through my shoes! And I could see them feeding on mint flowers as well.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  Wherever you live, please never visit here, I want no tiger mosquitoes hitching a ride.
- yourapostasy 5y ago
  Try 3M Ultrathon. Or go 100% DEET if you haven't tried it already. I'll take the inevitable "oops, DEET causes horrible cancer" news report in the future for clouds of Asian Tiger mosquitoes surrounding but not landing on me, please.
  - Foobar8568 5y ago
    It was already 30%, so similar to the 3M one... http://www.srf.ch/content/download/10055635/115349210/version/3/file/MueckenMittelTestResultate.pdf http://www.srf.ch/content/download/10055635/115349210/versio... first one in this comparison.
codingdave 5y ago
Add some birdfeeders around your house, and if swallows start to build their nests on your home, let them. I live next to wetlands, but the birds eat the bugs. Swallows specifically eat over 10,000 mosquitoes a day, so if you get them established on your property, it makes a huge difference.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  We have swallows, bats, and more dragonflies than you can imagine. Thanks for the suggest, but it is just hopeless.
- zionic 5y ago
  While these kind of suggestions are no doubt intended to be helpful, they come off as ignorant to anyone who has lived in a mosquito-prone area. Short of living in an actual bat cave, you’ll never get the density of predators required to solve the mosquito problem.
  - krasi0 5y ago
    Of all the natural predators mentioned above, only dragonflies make a real difference. It's night and day in the same area depending on whether there's a healthy population of dragonflies nearby.

corty 5y ago

We are already wiping out in the order of a species a day, usually in an unplanned, "oops" fashion: https://naturalhistory.si.edu/education/teaching-resources/paleontology/extinction-over-time https://naturalhistory.si.edu/education/teaching-resources/p.... Killing a few more in a planned, methodical fashion after having evaluated their use and harm won't make a lot of difference. Any big "disturbance of the ecosystems" is either already occuring or will fix itself over time. I think the risks are minimal, because we are still alive after all the damage we did already.

graderjs 5y ago
No I think the difference is that they directly integrate with humans so much. Particularly with the human immune system, pathogen vectors and genetics. Because they suck our blood. It's a pretty unique parasitic relationship--and often the fate of species, both animal and plant, can turn on their parasitic relationships. Perhaps we are not paying the humble mosquito the dues we naturally owe it? If we press that lever, we might not be able to undo it, and the consequences might be far worse than we (in our limited individual understandings and imaginations, which seem to become even more limited when elaborated through the rubric of public policy) can right now possibly imagine. Sure, it sounds like fear-mongering, and it might be...if they really are useless. But are we so sure? Is it worth it to take that risk? Consider that air pollution kills ten times (10!) as many as mosquitos. Well, we should just eradicate all fossil fuels. Wipe them from the face of the Earth. But of course, we will not--why? because we see how integrated these disease producing fossil fuels are into our modern energy and supply chains. We see their utility in the 'gross anatomy' of our industrialized civilization clearly. But I think it is not widely appreciated the utility of the mosquito in the much more subtle, but more complex and numerous subtle anatomy of the networks of our ecological and bodily systems. Eradicating them is worse than (the incredibly horrid and stupid hypothetical idea of) say wiping out all gut bacteria in terms of damage, potentially. Anyone who seems eager to take that risk and has the gall to affect society like that with grand statements of "wipe them all out"-- I think is crazy and dangerous. The risk is too great. Let's find ways to cure/combat the illnesses that don't involve taking out a key transport system in the global biome. It's like saying because crazy people can send letter bombs and con-persons can send fraud, we must execute all postal employees and dismantle all courier companies, if they've ever been misused. Because the internet can carry viruses to your computer, we must sever all submarine cables, and tear down all cell towers. It's sort of a sickness, an overgrowth of desire to use the clever technical genetic tools we can develop to watch as we humans hold the fate of a whole race of things in our hands. Let's use those clever genetic tricks to fight disease not bring the entire infrastructure down, in a fit of intoxication with our own self-importance, finger on the button of destruction, in a rapture of obsession with our very human world-conquering mania.