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> Victimhood has become THE status symbol of the left. Oh, good grief. Consider the things you say. You make a ridiculous claim.

deleted 5y ago
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jazzyjackson 5y ago
I’m not trying to write an essay tonight but I don’t think they’re wrong about there being a victim/abuser dichotomy. Have you been in lefty spaces? Room is always made for the most oppressed to speak. Which isn’t a bad approach but it does make victimhood a status thing.
- bjowen 5y ago
  Sure, but you often hear it being talked about in terms of a victimhood hierarchy or “oppression Olympics” which is a mischaracterisation that is used to stake out a position against listening to people who are being marginalised. In my experience, it’s an effort made to listen to people whose needs aren’t being met, because whatever policy or design is being discussed either forgot them entirely or designed something inappropriately. Easiest non-political example I can think of is an office bike locker where I worked which had hanging bike racks — as people started using e-bikes, that worked out badly, because e-bikes are heavy and the people using them didn’t all have the strength to hoist them. They weren’t the majority of cyclists, but they were causing the majority the problems of bikes being left in awkward or unsafe places. Turns out some regular cyclists struggled to lift their bikes too, so we installed floor racks (and power outlets) - clutter solved and back injuries hopefully avoided. That effort to listen is definitely misused by some people who (in my respectful opinion) thrive on attention, but I think you’d find lefties talking about the project in terms of equality and inclusion.
  - javajosh 5y ago
    It is wrong to entirely discount a tale of woe, just as it is to entirely credit it. The right dismisses and demeans, and the left is credulous and unquestioningly supports. Both are wrong, and there's a wide swath of reaction possible between these two extremes, which is where I try to be. And in addition, both the left and right extremists like to misrepresent the other, and demean them, which is also wrong. The problem here is that someone in the middle, like me, is happily pigeon-holed as an extremist by either side, as you do in your comment. I did not, and have never, demeaned the leftist error as "oppression Olympics" because this throws the baby out with the bathwater. Racist policy has momentum and it's foolish to deny it. What I stand firmly against is the credulity with which every allegation of misconduct is accepted from anyone that has certain characteristics. Privilege is real, but that doesn't imply that everything the underprivileged say is true, or that they would never be tempted to use the power of allegation to achieve personal ends.
- moistly 5y ago
  > Victimhood has become THE status symbol of the left. This is a ridiculously broad statement. It is not an argument in good faith. It does not contribute beneficially to the discussion. GP needs to do better.

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jazzyjackson 5y ago

I’m not trying to write an essay tonight but I don’t think they’re wrong about there being a victim/abuser dichotomy. Have you been in lefty spaces? Room is always made for the most oppressed to speak. Which isn’t a bad approach but it does make victimhood a status thing.

bjowen 5y ago
Sure, but you often hear it being talked about in terms of a victimhood hierarchy or “oppression Olympics” which is a mischaracterisation that is used to stake out a position against listening to people who are being marginalised. In my experience, it’s an effort made to listen to people whose needs aren’t being met, because whatever policy or design is being discussed either forgot them entirely or designed something inappropriately. Easiest non-political example I can think of is an office bike locker where I worked which had hanging bike racks — as people started using e-bikes, that worked out badly, because e-bikes are heavy and the people using them didn’t all have the strength to hoist them. They weren’t the majority of cyclists, but they were causing the majority the problems of bikes being left in awkward or unsafe places. Turns out some regular cyclists struggled to lift their bikes too, so we installed floor racks (and power outlets) - clutter solved and back injuries hopefully avoided. That effort to listen is definitely misused by some people who (in my respectful opinion) thrive on attention, but I think you’d find lefties talking about the project in terms of equality and inclusion.
- javajosh 5y ago
  It is wrong to entirely discount a tale of woe, just as it is to entirely credit it. The right dismisses and demeans, and the left is credulous and unquestioningly supports. Both are wrong, and there's a wide swath of reaction possible between these two extremes, which is where I try to be. And in addition, both the left and right extremists like to misrepresent the other, and demean them, which is also wrong. The problem here is that someone in the middle, like me, is happily pigeon-holed as an extremist by either side, as you do in your comment. I did not, and have never, demeaned the leftist error as "oppression Olympics" because this throws the baby out with the bathwater. Racist policy has momentum and it's foolish to deny it. What I stand firmly against is the credulity with which every allegation of misconduct is accepted from anyone that has certain characteristics. Privilege is real, but that doesn't imply that everything the underprivileged say is true, or that they would never be tempted to use the power of allegation to achieve personal ends.
moistly 5y ago
> Victimhood has become THE status symbol of the left. This is a ridiculously broad statement. It is not an argument in good faith. It does not contribute beneficially to the discussion. GP needs to do better.