> I don't care what you do, the articles I linked you show "a preponderance of evidence" that many vegetarians and vegans (entire populations in India) suffer f

> I don't care what you do, the articles I linked you show "a preponderance of evidence" that many vegetarians and vegans (entire populations in India) suffer from B12 deficiency. That does not prove that supplementation does not work. I cannot attest to what many vegans and vegetarians are doing or what people in India are doing. I know many who refuse to supplement. I supplement and have a open fact-based relationship with my doctor. Meat eaters can get B12 deficiency as well. When they do, they go to the doctor and get tested, and then get supplementation. > You follow your doctor's advice so you don't care what everyone else does? I care, that is why I am debating with you. > And I'm with you on "mass industrialisation" I am glad we agree on something. > But what does that have to do with eating enough meat to stay healthy? The crux of the problem is you can't scale Western levels of meat consumption to 7 billion + people in the world without the immorality of mass industrialization. Locally grown, organic, grass fed beef (or even environmentally better kelp fed), free range chickens and eggs from your back yard, ethically caught fish grown in the untouched pristine waters, managed by your friendly ethical farmer or fisherman at scale is unachievable. The reality is, in order to feed everyone on a meat and fish diet at the price people can afford you need industrial scale. With industrial scale you get the absolute moral hellscape we live in now. > Most people in the world don't get their meat from factory farms. I actually believe you. However in the US 99% of farmed animals live in factory farms and I am sure it is similar in the EU, and as people around world become richer they are transitioning to Western style diets with meat and dairy which will require them to industrialize. What is interesting is that in all of the online debates I have had. No one has ever defended the ethics of mass industrial farming.