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The key phrase is identity politics - I hope internet discourse begins to move away from this framework, but as of now politics is entirely focused on the nouns

The key phrase is identity politics - I hope internet discourse begins to move away from this framework, but as of now politics is entirely focused on the nouns - who, what, when. The immutable states of ones’ person. The answer is to move to a verb-based politics: what does this person do? What have they done? What do they say? What do they think? Are the dialectics good? Is the methodology sound? Does it make sense? Does it help? Does it hurt? People will say “listen to black people” while simultaneously dehumanizing all black people into a monolithic and tokenized opinion-vessel. I personally know black people, gay people, trans people, disabled people, who are exhausted of being that vessel. Of being a walking textbook for other people to memorize. The truth is that black people, and all people of color, are diverse culturally, emotionally, and intellectually and in order to be a good ally you have to not only listen to All of them, as well as your own heart, and you must use your critical thinking skills to determine what you personally think is correct - and act on it. You must be active and competent, and you must not regurgitate. At the end of the day there will be black people who agree with you and black people who disagree with you, but you can hope your efforts at activism will help both groups regardless.

corey_moncure 5y ago
> as of now politics is entirely focused on the nouns - who, what, when. The immutable states of ones’ person. The answer is to move to a verb-based politics: what does this person do? A sociology teacher I had at UMich said a lot of things I disagreed with but one idea that I'll never forget is that prior to the 20th Century, there were no homosexuals. Humans haven't changed- there were homosexual acts, which individuals may have practiced at varying levels according to the time and place in history. But it wasn't something that came to define one's identity until very recently in history.
- krapp 5y ago
  related: "Shakespeare needs more gay[0]." [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZWMTGF1pNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZWMTGF1pNw
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
chme 5y ago
> People will say “listen to black people” while simultaneously dehumanizing all black people into a monolithic and tokenized opinion-vessel. I personally know black people, gay people, trans people, disabled people, who are exhausted of being that vessel. Well everyone loves their boxes, don't they? It's so neat and easy to put everyone in one of those and finding the right box for someone just requires a glance at them or maybe some exchanged words. And suddenly all that persons problems and motivations are understood, and it is known wherever what they say should be praised or ignored.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  When you say it that way, it sounds really racist.
  - loopz 5y ago
    Any simple solution regarding gender or race will be discriminatory, because one forget to treat people as human individuals. There's no box to "tick", done, but you might try to get to know different kinds of people. Yes, they come in different kinds, even different personalities (did you think in colour again?).
akomtu 5y ago
Identity politics is a very convenient power framework. Dealing with a nation of billion intelligent individuals is an arduous task. Instead, they could be boxed into 5-6 groups, every group gets assigned viewpoints that its members must adhere to, and suddenly you only need to deal with 5-6 individuals. We call it abstraction and encapsulation in software. The only problem is enforcing the in-group behavior, but it turns out groups can do it themselves: the "crab mentality" makes people pull down anyone who tries to climb out of the box. This arrangement of 5-6 boxes with crabs is very stable, but whether one can downgrade a well established and intelligent society into this state is a big open question.
- jollybean 5y ago
  This is highly salient and should not be downvoted. People who have opinions outside the framework in the ostensible the majority of that group have formed their opinions, are often marginalized. 'Latino Republican' is a really common identity for example that 'breaks the mould' and it's not a voice you're going to hear from very often.

corey_moncure 5y ago

> as of now politics is entirely focused on the nouns - who, what, when. The immutable states of ones’ person. The answer is to move to a verb-based politics: what does this person do? A sociology teacher I had at UMich said a lot of things I disagreed with but one idea that I'll never forget is that prior to the 20th Century, there were no homosexuals. Humans haven't changed- there were homosexual acts, which individuals may have practiced at varying levels according to the time and place in history. But it wasn't something that came to define one's identity until very recently in history.

krapp 5y ago
related: "Shakespeare needs more gay[0]." [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZWMTGF1pNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZWMTGF1pNw
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

chme 5y ago

> People will say “listen to black people” while simultaneously dehumanizing all black people into a monolithic and tokenized opinion-vessel. I personally know black people, gay people, trans people, disabled people, who are exhausted of being that vessel. Well everyone loves their boxes, don't they? It's so neat and easy to put everyone in one of those and finding the right box for someone just requires a glance at them or maybe some exchanged words. And suddenly all that persons problems and motivations are understood, and it is known wherever what they say should be praised or ignored.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
When you say it that way, it sounds really racist.
- loopz 5y ago
  Any simple solution regarding gender or race will be discriminatory, because one forget to treat people as human individuals. There's no box to "tick", done, but you might try to get to know different kinds of people. Yes, they come in different kinds, even different personalities (did you think in colour again?).

akomtu 5y ago

Identity politics is a very convenient power framework. Dealing with a nation of billion intelligent individuals is an arduous task. Instead, they could be boxed into 5-6 groups, every group gets assigned viewpoints that its members must adhere to, and suddenly you only need to deal with 5-6 individuals. We call it abstraction and encapsulation in software. The only problem is enforcing the in-group behavior, but it turns out groups can do it themselves: the "crab mentality" makes people pull down anyone who tries to climb out of the box. This arrangement of 5-6 boxes with crabs is very stable, but whether one can downgrade a well established and intelligent society into this state is a big open question.

jollybean 5y ago
This is highly salient and should not be downvoted. People who have opinions outside the framework in the ostensible the majority of that group have formed their opinions, are often marginalized. 'Latino Republican' is a really common identity for example that 'breaks the mould' and it's not a voice you're going to hear from very often.