5 ms·

I Moved to Warsaw, Poland from Palo Alto, California

16 points by stared 5y ago

version_five 5y ago
This is very interesting. A close family member lived in Poland ~20 years ago and the description I got were very different re language, food, safety, etc. It does not surprise me that things have changed rapidly there. I'd be very interested to hear how / if the working style differs from North America and how different, if at all, it is managing a team of Polish engineers. The only thing I'd add, is that almost all the points in favor of Poland can also be applied to Montreal (not the cheap flights to nearby cities part). For the less adventurous, it is worth considering :)
- woofie11 5y ago
  I've been really sad to see Poland Westernize as quickly as it did. It lost a lot of its essence. One piece missing from this article, though, is the world-class education system. Compare Poland and the US on PISA scores. I think only Korea, Japan, Finland, Singapore, Taiwan, and Estonia are better. I think in contrast to US state exams, I think PISA does reflect educational quality pretty well.
  - legerdemain 5y ago
    Poland had several centers of excellence for math education. Its teams perform very well in math competitions, as do teams from Bulgaria, of all places.
  - Jorengarenar 5y ago
    Poland has world-class education system? That explains why world is in the state it is
    - woofie11 5y ago
      It's funny, but I think that attitude is how it got that way. Most places, it's not okay to criticize the system. Without criticism, things don't improve. In Slavic countries, it's expected that everyone criticize the system. That points out flaws, which can then either be improved or worked around. Seriously, though. Look here: https://schoolinreviews.com/pisa-results-published-in-dec-2019-which-countries-score-the-highest-and-why/ https://schoolinreviews.com/pisa-results-published-in-dec-20... Then remove China, Honk Kong, and Macau, which measure China by their top-performing cities. See where Poland lands. As Poland continues to westernize, I predict: (1) The education system will get worse (2) People will believe it's better (3) Aesthetics (e.g. buildings) will look nicer
legerdemain 5y ago
Tantalizing, but I'd like to have total confidence that my partner and I, two women, can walk down the street holding hands and being affectionate with each other without a constant feeling of scrutiny and wariness. Reports indicate that a lot of Poland is vocal and demonstrative in its attitude toward queers. Not to mention all the young male Polish coworkers and interns we've had over the years making light smalltalk to the effect of "we're trying to be nice to you because this is the US, we'd talk very differently if this was Poland."
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- stared 5y ago
  Warsaw is different than most cities in Poland. There are rainbow flags in windows; the recent Pride Parade was large, joyful, and safe. Cities in Eastern Poland are not safe. I am not too queer but (as a men) I ocassionally walk wearing a skirt and painted nails. Initially I was afraid; but no-one ever cared. To be fair - I walked in the hipster parts of of Warsaw (e.g. Plac Zbawiciela). In Warsaw, in most corporations or tech companies, people don't care whom you date or who is/are your partner(s). In old companies or public institutions, it might not be that easy.w And there is no marriage quality. That said, the government (right-wing, authoritarian, Catholic, and reversing an already limited church-state separation) is openly anti-LGBT and anti women's rights.
RicoElectrico 5y ago
Re: workaholism, I would not be so sure. The phrase "kult zapierdolu" was not coined without reason. Overall management culture is stuck in 90s when due to unemployment anybody was happy to have work at all. There's a whole family of memes about "Janusz" - a boomer owner of a company that treats his employees like shit and doesn't trust them, which may be a testament to the scale of this. A popular meme alludes to "kult zapierdolu" - if you finished your work and have nothing to do, get a broom and sweep the factory floor. Obviously in tech, especially SWE positions, conditions are nothing like that (mostly).
Jorengarenar 5y ago
I like reading such articles about Poland, how much I would love to live there. Unfortunately, I live in Poland
dtagames 5y ago
I can vouch for the food being absolutely excellent and the prices insanely low, but it's not true that everyone speaks English. Not even close. There are also cultural differences related to American "niceness" that are not the norm in Poland and those interactions might be jarring (like the other poster mentioned).

16 points by stared 5y ago

This is very interesting. A close family member lived in Poland ~20 years ago and the description I got were very different re language, food, safety, etc. It does not surprise me that things have changed rapidly there. I'd be very interested to hear how / if the working style differs from North America and how different, if at all, it is managing a team of Polish engineers. The only thing I'd add, is that almost all the points in favor of Poland can also be applied to Montreal (not the cheap flights to nearby cities part). For the less adventurous, it is worth considering :)

woofie11 5y ago
I've been really sad to see Poland Westernize as quickly as it did. It lost a lot of its essence. One piece missing from this article, though, is the world-class education system. Compare Poland and the US on PISA scores. I think only Korea, Japan, Finland, Singapore, Taiwan, and Estonia are better. I think in contrast to US state exams, I think PISA does reflect educational quality pretty well.
- legerdemain 5y ago
  Poland had several centers of excellence for math education. Its teams perform very well in math competitions, as do teams from Bulgaria, of all places.
- Jorengarenar 5y ago
  Poland has world-class education system? That explains why world is in the state it is
  - woofie11 5y ago
    It's funny, but I think that attitude is how it got that way. Most places, it's not okay to criticize the system. Without criticism, things don't improve. In Slavic countries, it's expected that everyone criticize the system. That points out flaws, which can then either be improved or worked around. Seriously, though. Look here: https://schoolinreviews.com/pisa-results-published-in-dec-2019-which-countries-score-the-highest-and-why/ https://schoolinreviews.com/pisa-results-published-in-dec-20... Then remove China, Honk Kong, and Macau, which measure China by their top-performing cities. See where Poland lands. As Poland continues to westernize, I predict: (1) The education system will get worse (2) People will believe it's better (3) Aesthetics (e.g. buildings) will look nicer

legerdemain 5y ago

Tantalizing, but I'd like to have total confidence that my partner and I, two women, can walk down the street holding hands and being affectionate with each other without a constant feeling of scrutiny and wariness. Reports indicate that a lot of Poland is vocal and demonstrative in its attitude toward queers. Not to mention all the young male Polish coworkers and interns we've had over the years making light smalltalk to the effect of "we're trying to be nice to you because this is the US, we'd talk very differently if this was Poland."

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
stared 5y ago
Warsaw is different than most cities in Poland. There are rainbow flags in windows; the recent Pride Parade was large, joyful, and safe. Cities in Eastern Poland are not safe. I am not too queer but (as a men) I ocassionally walk wearing a skirt and painted nails. Initially I was afraid; but no-one ever cared. To be fair - I walked in the hipster parts of of Warsaw (e.g. Plac Zbawiciela). In Warsaw, in most corporations or tech companies, people don't care whom you date or who is/are your partner(s). In old companies or public institutions, it might not be that easy.w And there is no marriage quality. That said, the government (right-wing, authoritarian, Catholic, and reversing an already limited church-state separation) is openly anti-LGBT and anti women's rights.

RicoElectrico 5y ago

Re: workaholism, I would not be so sure. The phrase "kult zapierdolu" was not coined without reason. Overall management culture is stuck in 90s when due to unemployment anybody was happy to have work at all. There's a whole family of memes about "Janusz" - a boomer owner of a company that treats his employees like shit and doesn't trust them, which may be a testament to the scale of this. A popular meme alludes to "kult zapierdolu" - if you finished your work and have nothing to do, get a broom and sweep the factory floor. Obviously in tech, especially SWE positions, conditions are nothing like that (mostly).

Jorengarenar 5y ago

I like reading such articles about Poland, how much I would love to live there. Unfortunately, I live in Poland

dtagames 5y ago

I can vouch for the food being absolutely excellent and the prices insanely low, but it's not true that everyone speaks English. Not even close. There are also cultural differences related to American "niceness" that are not the norm in Poland and those interactions might be jarring (like the other poster mentioned).