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I’ve often heard the argument that we need to change all GitHub repos from master to main because master has etymological origins in the concept of slavery, and

• gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
  I think changing master/slave terminology is justified, but to me master branch suggests something like master key or master prints. That which is the superior and definitive example of the collection from which it comes.
  • MrStonedOne 5y ago
    Master apprentice is the better analogy. as once a branch is merged, it effectively becomes the master.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • adamrezich 5y ago
    see how quickly that slope gets slippery?
  • nlitened 5y ago
    Shouldn’t universities rename master’s degree programs as well?
    • avereveard 5y ago
      That comes from master/pupil
      • _-david-_ 5y ago
        It is 2021 so context doesn't matter. Master can mean slave owner so it needs to change otherwise someone might be offended. /sarcasm
  • Retric 5y ago
    I am fine replacing Master/Slave terminology where it shows up. I just think Master alone is fine just like Masters degree, Master craftsman, Master/Apprentice, Master of ceremonies, hell Master brand hand tools.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • noptd 5y ago
    Not to mention that the timing of GitHub embracing the name change made it an oftly convenient distraction from all of the bad press they were getting about their contract with the Customs and Border Patrol. Who wouldn't hop on that positive PR bandwagon in their position? /s
• okamiueru 5y ago
  It's virtue signaling. That use of "master" is just tiny compared to all other uses in history. "Master record", "master of science", "master artisan". Should conductors no longer be called maestros? It's dumb, and should be ridiculed, if not called out for the deliberate harm of detracting from the real issue of institutionalised racism. If you feel something should be done, this isn't it, and we shouldn't get to feel better by renaming a git branch.
  • silicon2401 5y ago
    > detracting from the real issue of institutionalised racism that just gets you demonized too, for not falling in line 100%. any questioning of the narrative means you must be racist yourself
    • loopz 5y ago
      Please report about your experienced demonisation.
  • flyingcircus3 5y ago
    I've literally never seen/heard the phrase "virtue signaling" be used in a context that actually persuaded me to agree with the user of said phrase. It's just a magical shibboleth that is completely unprovable.
    • jessaustin 5y ago
      I find the use of that phrase to be a powerful argument for flipping the bozo bit.
      • damagednoob 5y ago
        I find the same thing for 'dog whistle'. When people tell you who they are, believe them except I can read their minds and this is their actual intent.
        • 5y ago
• gherkinnn 5y ago
  Because just like shaming the use of drinking straws, it’s a low effort (and in my view mostly inconsequential or even misguided) change that gives you a feeling of moral superiority. Actual sacrifices are hard and uncomfortable. Who wants that?
  • wolverine876 5y ago
    > Actual sacrifices are hard and uncomfortable. Can't we do both the hard and easy? Neither precludes the other. How are you helping by obstructing either? > gives you a feeling of moral superiority Can you give evidence of that being the motive? It's too easy to smear people with it. Maybe you are motivated by moral superiority, maybe I am.
    • kyleee 5y ago
      > Can't we do both the hard and easy? Neither precludes the other. How are you helping by obstructing either? Probably not? That would assume people have infinite time and energy, and unlimited political and social capital to urge other people and organizations to change, which I don't think is true
      • wolverine876 5y ago
        People do plenty of the easy things - people stop using single-use plastics, for example - and still work for the hard ones.
  • BurningFrog 5y ago
    I think of many of those things are "tribal markers". By publicly taking a stand for/against certain things, you show you're a loyal member of the Blue Tribe. One important thing about that is that the weirder the stance is, the stronger the loyalty signal is. Saying something borderline idiotic that the Tribe likes, shows you're ready to publicly humiliate yourself for the tribe, which earns extra credit. I'm not at all saying this is the only thing in play here, but once you realize this is a "thing", it makes some crazy things seem less crazy.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• wolverine876 5y ago
  It's important to consider the complication that there are few black people in technology who you could ask. Inevitably, most people talking about Github are white.
  • hpoe 5y ago
    My brother in law is black and in Tech, and not African American just straight up African. He doesn't have an issue with it.
    • wolverine876 5y ago
      One example of hearsay from someone somebody on a message board knows is not evidence, and it doesn't change my point: If people are talking about Github, they probably are white.
      • adamrezich 5y ago
        "everyone should make this change to their language because it's offensive to $MINORITY" "but you, and pretty much everyone else espousing this, aren't $MINORITY, why do you feel the need to speak on their behalf?" "well there aren't a lot of $MINORITY in this industry, and there's all sorts of reasons why minorities don't want to speak up about something like this because of discrimination in their workplace" "ok here's a $MINORITY I know personally, he doesn't have a problem with it" "that's just anecdotal evidence and should thus be disregarded" infantilizing minorities will never not be disgusting
        • wolverine876 5y ago
          How did the GP infantilize anyone? The GGP was simply not evidence.
          • adamrezich 5y ago
            if someone is advocating for changing language for everyone to protect the feelings of $MINORITY, without actually knowing any $MINORITY that objects to said language (or being one themselves), then disregards anecdotal instances of $MINORITY not objecting to said language, then the result is a belief that you know what changes to society should be made on behalf of $MINORITY, thus infantilizing them, portraying them as someone who can't speak up for themselves and portraying yourself as someone who knows better than $MINORITY what is best for $MINORITY.
• onion2k 5y ago
  But I’ve always heard this argument made by white people. Are you actively seeking a diverse range of people to listen to? The majority of prominent people in tech are white men, so it's not particularly likely you'll hear non-white people's opinions unless you actually seek them out.
  • listless 5y ago
    You can consider the OP an attempt to solicit just such input
  • MathMonkeyMan 5y ago
    That is an important point. My mind too went in the direction of "this is just white people hiding their privilege in an offshore account." But then I realized that I hardly know any black people.
• eesmith 5y ago
  What percentage would be enough for you to support the change? BTW, the argument isn't as simple as "because master has etymological origins in the concept of slavery" because "master" has many varied meanings (see https://www.etymonline.com/word/master https://www.etymonline.com/word/master ), the slavery one was not the first, and at most only a tiny fringe want to change terms like "master's degree" or "master mariner" to something else.
• cronix 5y ago
  They're doing it in the housing industry. "Master bedroom" is going away. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/realestate/master-bedroom-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/realestate/master-bedroom... L'oreal is stopping using the term "whitening" and "fair" in their products. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/27/business/loreal-removes-word-whitening-fair-skincare-products/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/27/business/loreal-removes-word-... Don't forget "master/slave" used in general computing terms, beyond "git branches." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/technology/racist-computer-engineering-terms-ietf.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/technology/racist-compute... It's happening in the wine industry. > The Court of Master Sommeliers, which "sets the global standard of excellence for beverage service within the hospitality industry," will stop using the term "master sommelier." We must purge those words from all of our vocabulary in all contexts, for they can only mean one thing.
  • rcoveson 5y ago
    Chess colors and the rules around them will probably change at some point. What's worse is that people will act like the prospect is utterly ridiculous while the idea is in its infancy. Then, after FIDE or some other Chess organization release a statement about planned changes, people's tune will change to "It's inconvenient but if it helps even one more Black person feel good about playing Chess then it was worth it". I'm already starting to believe it. Do we really play a game with white and black pieces where white always goes first? Where black loses more games than white? Not everybody knows the history of Chess. To some new players, especially from less privileged groups, it may seem like just another example of leftover oppression. Even to those who know that the history of the colors predates white European enslavement of black Africans, it nonetheless serves as a painful reminder due to the meanings of those things in a modern context.
    • jessaustin 5y ago
      ...the history of the colors predates slavery... This is an interesting claim. My Bible has numerous instances of slavery, and none of chess.
• deanCommie 5y ago
  When you're a minority in any space, it's dangerous to speak about about ways that you are discriminated against. People think that you are trying to come up with excuses for not delivering value. And then you start being treated like a token. Nobody wants that Even if people don't say that/think that, you yourself want to prove yourself on merits - isn't that the best way to find racism/sexism/ism? Show that it would be ridiculous to be discriminated against. My experience with women engineers is that most want to dedicate their time to first earning their credibility and only THEN get involved in any D&I efforts. That's why it's unfair to ask women to be the advocates for gender parity, to ask black people to advocate for more inclusive racial language, etc. The most meaningful change comes from within, from people who DON'T have skin in the game. Yes, mistakes can happen: See the whole LatinX debaucle, which Latino/a people think is idiotic. But it doesn't negate the responsibility of white people to help fix past injustices. Lastly, the bar for fixing past injustices isn't "is the term so offensive that it should be changed in every context". It's "Is the term offensive enough that it wouldn't be INTRODUCED today?". Yes, this requires more effort. But that's the only way to fix injustice - it's not to stop from now on, it's also go back and fix past problems. Malcolm X: > “I will never say that progress is being made. If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there’s no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that’s not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven’t even begun to pull the knife out, much less heal the wound. They won’t even admit the knife is there.”
  • golemiprague 5y ago
    That's your interpretation, there is no proof for it, it might be that they just don't feel any discrimination or they don't want your coddling but rather want to compete and prove themselves even if there is discrimination. I don't think any group of people succeeded by getting coddled, it is humiliating and crippling. What the Americans are doing now to their black community is a disaster, you guys are just destroying them even further with all your "help", it is not wonder they can't improve their situation unlike many other dark skin groups in America which seems to do well even with all the "racism".
  • wolverine876 5y ago
    Great perspective, and I'll add that: > you yourself want to prove yourself on merits Also, like every other human, you want to fit in. Not only is it a fundamental human instinct (think of the awful things people do in order to fit in), it's necessary for your day at work, your current job, and your career. You can be mediocre at your job and work for a long time. But we know what happens to troublemakers or whistle-blowers. > Lastly, the bar for fixing past injustices isn't "is the term so offensive that it should be changed in every context". It's "Is the term offensive enough that it wouldn't be INTRODUCED today?". Excellent idea, and I will use it. > Yes, mistakes can happen: See the whole LatinX debaucle, which Latino/a people think is idiotic. If true, it's mostly harmless to err on the side of being respectful. Erring on the side of discrimination does a lot of harm.
• akomtu 5y ago
  The noise about master branches is nothing because one day the woke types will discover the White House in DC.
  • knicholes 5y ago
    Or any executive title that starts with "chief."
• gm3dmo 5y ago
  Master/journeyman/apprentice were the terms in the middle ages when your parents sold you to master as indentured labour for a 7 year term. I'm of the mind that that was a form of slavery. Peter Grimes in the George Crabbe poem murders apprentices and get off Scot free until an eventual comeuppance.
• ErikVandeWater 5y ago
  And it's not like white people have never been enslaved; every person in the world is a product of slavery. The fact that your great grandfather from the year 1000 AD was a slave could very well have meant you were born to a difficult upbringing now. The fact that it's difficult to trace back that far does not mean it was monumentally important for your circumstances today. People choose a starting point of history that is convenient for their narrative.
  • likeclockwork 5y ago
    People choose a starting point that lets them be proud of the genocidal slave state they call home.
    • therealdrag0 5y ago
      What do you think the implications are for being proud or not of the state?
      • likeclockwork 5y ago
        Flag sales?
• jrm4 5y ago
  Black person here. Wrong question? I'd say, no, I mostly don't care. But also, don't use it as an excuse to shy away from discussion.