4 ms·

"I did in fact sign a copy of the NDA when I began my employment, and handed it to [person] on [date]. I hope this helps you to locate it." I'm not sure how im

"I did in fact sign a copy of the NDA when I began my employment, and handed it to [person] on [date]. I hope this helps you to locate it." I'm not sure how important this is. Of course they still have the old NDA, and in any perjury situation they would readily admit that. Managers and (especially) HR people regularly "fib" (synonym of "lie") in hopes of distracting attention from the monstrous demands of capital. If an employee made a big stink, that employee would be reminded that employment is at-will and thus contingent on signing whatever is required at any time. The worst NDA amendments could possibly be contested in court, if one wants to spend five figures on attorneys. Probably a better way to avoid surprise "renegotiations" is to unionize...

hbrav 5y ago
A union is definitely the gold-standard defense against nonsense like this. But a lot of places have significantly higher employment protections that the US. Remember, it's not always you that has to go to court to fight an NDA clause though. If you've resigned, and the company is insisting that it can search your devices because the NDA says so, the company is the one that needs to convince a judge to grant a court order allowing it to do so. (Again: not legal advice! But my understanding is that's how most contract rights need to be enforced.)
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  > the company is the one that needs to convince a judge to grant a court order allowing it to do so Except they still have the legal advantage of more moneys and lawyers. There is no easy win unless the judge intervenes before you pay lawyers too much.
  - hbrav 5y ago
    True, but it still puts the work of filing etc. on them. You can always self-rep. It's usually not a good idea, but here your argument is really very simple: "I signed this NDA on the basis of specific assurances, which were false. I have a record of those assurances from [company lawyer]."
  - celticninja 5y ago
    You can also just string it out, and on the first day you are due in court say "ok here it is". You dont need to pay a lawyer anything, the company just has to prove that it is really committed to getting this info. To go as far as having a court date set and lawyers ready to turn up. Personally I would arrive at court to ensure they sent some actual lawyers and then if I couldn't argue my point happily hand it over at no expense to myself other than taking a day off to attend court.
celticninja 5y ago
>If an employee made a big stink, that employee would be reminded that employment is at-will This applies to the US only. I wonder if American employees understand that their employers exist/operate in the EU too and the employees there are treated very differently vis a vis employment rights.

hbrav 5y ago

A union is definitely the gold-standard defense against nonsense like this. But a lot of places have significantly higher employment protections that the US. Remember, it's not always you that has to go to court to fight an NDA clause though. If you've resigned, and the company is insisting that it can search your devices because the NDA says so, the company is the one that needs to convince a judge to grant a court order allowing it to do so. (Again: not legal advice! But my understanding is that's how most contract rights need to be enforced.)

vineyardmike 5y ago
> the company is the one that needs to convince a judge to grant a court order allowing it to do so Except they still have the legal advantage of more moneys and lawyers. There is no easy win unless the judge intervenes before you pay lawyers too much.
- hbrav 5y ago
  True, but it still puts the work of filing etc. on them. You can always self-rep. It's usually not a good idea, but here your argument is really very simple: "I signed this NDA on the basis of specific assurances, which were false. I have a record of those assurances from [company lawyer]."
- celticninja 5y ago
  You can also just string it out, and on the first day you are due in court say "ok here it is". You dont need to pay a lawyer anything, the company just has to prove that it is really committed to getting this info. To go as far as having a court date set and lawyers ready to turn up. Personally I would arrive at court to ensure they sent some actual lawyers and then if I couldn't argue my point happily hand it over at no expense to myself other than taking a day off to attend court.

celticninja 5y ago

>If an employee made a big stink, that employee would be reminded that employment is at-will This applies to the US only. I wonder if American employees understand that their employers exist/operate in the EU too and the employees there are treated very differently vis a vis employment rights.