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Thanks for sharing those two posts. These might be instrumental in helping a (more rationalist-leaning) friend and I move forward in a years-long debate about e

Thanks for sharing those two posts. These might be instrumental in helping a (more rationalist-leaning) friend and I move forward in a years-long debate about ethics, lmfao This part particularly resonated with me: > Your trust will not break, until you apply all that you have learned here and from other books, and take it as far as you can go, and find that this too fails you—that you have still been a fool, and no one warned you against it—that all the most important parts were left out of the guidance you received—that some of the most precious ideals you followed, steered you in the wrong direction— > —and if you still have something to protect, so that you must keep going, and cannot resign and wisely acknowledge the limitations of rationality— > —then you will be ready to start your journey as a rationalist. My trust broke years ago, and I found the rationalists, and then I realized, unlike Yudkowsky (I guess?), that I didn't have something to protect. So, my personal goals are in that sense very different. In my experience with the rationalist community as well, I found that most people I met didn't have a specific personal motivation beside their beliefs surrounding x-risk, and I personally find the set of axioms required to accept rationalist beliefs on x-risk a bit... difficult to swallow.

FeepingCreature 5y ago
Yeah that all makes sense. I called myself a "rationality consumer" in a LW post a few years back, and I think that roughly still holds. Though I will say that being part of a community where wrong beliefs are corrigible through argumentative persuasion is an immense social relief for me. (Also, AI X-Risk makes a lot more sense if you're already habituated to thinking of the mind in terms of algorithm. 40% programmers: not a coincidence.)
- Nav_Panel 5y ago
  This also makes sense. I did enjoy all the arguments I got into on the SSC discord. It was formative for me even though I found myself often frustrated when the arguments reached an impasse, often in relation to the desires of the interlocutors. I'm also a programmer and am very habituated in terms of thinking in algorithms, but when I had my "break", I realized that my beliefs were not working on a very deep level, and I needed something a lot stronger/deeper than rationality to push me out of whatever local extremum I was trapped in.
  - FeepingCreature 5y ago
    Hey, if it works for you it's all to the good. :) (I think we've run out of disagreements. Good talk?)
    - Nav_Panel 5y ago
      good talk! check my about page for a discord if you wanna chat again
      - FeepingCreature 5y ago
        Thanks but note, I almost entirely hang out on irc. Don't wanna link here but I'm sure you can guess the channel :P (Woe! A deeper rift than even incompatible epistemologies: incompatible chat clients!)
        Nav_Panel 5y ago
        ahaha classic... I haven't used IRC since my college days, unfortunately I don't think I can support another chat client tab :P (the software i'm working with takes up way too much memory smdh)

FeepingCreature 5y ago

Yeah that all makes sense. I called myself a "rationality consumer" in a LW post a few years back, and I think that roughly still holds. Though I will say that being part of a community where wrong beliefs are corrigible through argumentative persuasion is an immense social relief for me. (Also, AI X-Risk makes a lot more sense if you're already habituated to thinking of the mind in terms of algorithm. 40% programmers: not a coincidence.)

Nav_Panel 5y ago
This also makes sense. I did enjoy all the arguments I got into on the SSC discord. It was formative for me even though I found myself often frustrated when the arguments reached an impasse, often in relation to the desires of the interlocutors. I'm also a programmer and am very habituated in terms of thinking in algorithms, but when I had my "break", I realized that my beliefs were not working on a very deep level, and I needed something a lot stronger/deeper than rationality to push me out of whatever local extremum I was trapped in.
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  Hey, if it works for you it's all to the good. :) (I think we've run out of disagreements. Good talk?)
  - Nav_Panel 5y ago
    good talk! check my about page for a discord if you wanna chat again
    - FeepingCreature 5y ago
      Thanks but note, I almost entirely hang out on irc. Don't wanna link here but I'm sure you can guess the channel :P (Woe! A deeper rift than even incompatible epistemologies: incompatible chat clients!)
      - Nav_Panel 5y ago
        ahaha classic... I haven't used IRC since my college days, unfortunately I don't think I can support another chat client tab :P (the software i'm working with takes up way too much memory smdh)