5 ms·

If Portland can hit 116 degrees, so can San Francisco. We're not ready

40 points by mmettler 5y ago

chaostheory 5y ago
A big issue is whether or not our power grid can handle all these new air conditioners coming online. Historically, it hasn't been able to handle it well in the past two years.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  I guess in the near future we'll be having partial blackouts to power the emergency "cool shelters", where everyone will have to go to, to keep cool...
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    Let's just go full on mole people, tunnels underground, all we need is a surface antenna for the 5G. It's not like most of us see much sunlight as it is.
    - Arrath 5y ago
      I would totally rock a hobbit hole, however I don't think that is a scalable solution for massive population bases.
  - shostack 5y ago
    Which will be just lovely depending on the covid situation.
  - SomewhatLikely 5y ago
    Not sure if you're aware but we literally had cooling centers here in Seattle during the heat wave.
- pengaru 5y ago
  Isn't the pivot to EVs more of a grid stressor than 120VAC window rattlers
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    I’m not sure what your point is. My point is that the existing system can’t even handle the current load and the author is proposing to add even more load at scale without addressing our power infrastructure.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      My point is that AC additions doesn't seem like the major grid capacity issue on the horizon. If the grid is getting upgraded sufficiently for the imminent EV transition, won't that more than cover daytime AC demands?
      - chaostheory 5y ago
        The grid is currently getting upgraded for transmitting power safely. I may have missed something but I don’t think it’s being upgraded for capacity.
- bsder 5y ago
  Solar generation peaks roughly at the same time that air conditioning loads peak. Making commercial buildings put solar on their roofs and over their parking areas would help a lot. Giving people incentives to put in battery storage to do load shifting would also help a lot since AC load is local to a building.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
LatteLazy 5y ago
46C
asdff 5y ago
Actually I don't think San Francisco can ever be that hot given its on the ocean. The prevailing ocean breeze does a lot to keep temps down. In LA, 15 miles from the ocean can easily mean 15 degrees increased in temperature throughout the year. When it was 110 inland in Oregon, it was still in the 70s on the coast due to the prevailing ocean breeze: https://www.beachconnection.net/news/excessheat062321.php https://www.beachconnection.net/news/excessheat062321.php
- tsomctl 5y ago
  I live a couple hours north of San Francisco, about a mile from the ocean. There is pretty much always a prevailing ocean breeze. Last summer, about 10 in the morning, I walked out on my lawn, and couldn't believe how hot it was. There was no breeze, pretty high humidity, and I could just feel the sun beating down. It was so bad that I couldn't stand there.
  - wil421 5y ago
    Sounds like where I live in the Deep South except it’s 8am. The other day I woke up and it was 97% humidity and I could literally see the moisture in the air (not quite fog).
- russellbeattie 5y ago
  Apparently SF has hit 106°F before, which, given that the city is surrounded on three sides by the Pacific Ocean averaging around 56°F, is pretty amazing.
  - oehtXRwMkIs 5y ago
    The heatwave last year was pretty bad, and with climate change the heat waves are supposed to get worse so the article seems intuitive to me.
  - megameter 5y ago
    Normally, in the SF summertime, the prevaling wind is east by mid-afternoon and continues strong well into the evening. Thus the city hardly ever heats up or experiences bad air until August, when the weather system changes and the winds calm down. This also leads to a distinct pattern with wildfire smoke; so long as there isn't a buildup over the ocean, the city gets some relief until there's a day with no wind, at which point it gets as socked in as the rest of the Bay. Last year was particularly bad since the ocean air eventually did get polluted and it circulated until precipitation cleared it. So far things are holding up better this year, but we have a few months to go.
mmettler 5y ago
Who’s working on new heat pump tech other than Gradient?
dr_faustus 5y ago
Right, MORE air conditioning will solve our problems with global warming…
- occz 5y ago
  > Right, MORE air conditioning will solve our problems with global warming… I'm not sure that it will be optional, given where we're going with the climate crisis. We can probably mitigate most of their impact by reducing the impact of electricity production to zero, at which point we can hopefully address the refrigerant-issue.

40 points by mmettler 5y ago

A big issue is whether or not our power grid can handle all these new air conditioners coming online. Historically, it hasn't been able to handle it well in the past two years.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
I guess in the near future we'll be having partial blackouts to power the emergency "cool shelters", where everyone will have to go to, to keep cool...
- pope_meat 5y ago
  Let's just go full on mole people, tunnels underground, all we need is a surface antenna for the 5G. It's not like most of us see much sunlight as it is.
  - Arrath 5y ago
    I would totally rock a hobbit hole, however I don't think that is a scalable solution for massive population bases.
- shostack 5y ago
  Which will be just lovely depending on the covid situation.
- SomewhatLikely 5y ago
  Not sure if you're aware but we literally had cooling centers here in Seattle during the heat wave.
pengaru 5y ago
Isn't the pivot to EVs more of a grid stressor than 120VAC window rattlers
- chaostheory 5y ago
  I’m not sure what your point is. My point is that the existing system can’t even handle the current load and the author is proposing to add even more load at scale without addressing our power infrastructure.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    My point is that AC additions doesn't seem like the major grid capacity issue on the horizon. If the grid is getting upgraded sufficiently for the imminent EV transition, won't that more than cover daytime AC demands?
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      The grid is currently getting upgraded for transmitting power safely. I may have missed something but I don’t think it’s being upgraded for capacity.
bsder 5y ago
Solar generation peaks roughly at the same time that air conditioning loads peak. Making commercial buildings put solar on their roofs and over their parking areas would help a lot. Giving people incentives to put in battery storage to do load shifting would also help a lot since AC load is local to a building.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

LatteLazy 5y ago

46C

asdff 5y ago

Actually I don't think San Francisco can ever be that hot given its on the ocean. The prevailing ocean breeze does a lot to keep temps down. In LA, 15 miles from the ocean can easily mean 15 degrees increased in temperature throughout the year. When it was 110 inland in Oregon, it was still in the 70s on the coast due to the prevailing ocean breeze: https://www.beachconnection.net/news/excessheat062321.php https://www.beachconnection.net/news/excessheat062321.php

tsomctl 5y ago
I live a couple hours north of San Francisco, about a mile from the ocean. There is pretty much always a prevailing ocean breeze. Last summer, about 10 in the morning, I walked out on my lawn, and couldn't believe how hot it was. There was no breeze, pretty high humidity, and I could just feel the sun beating down. It was so bad that I couldn't stand there.
- wil421 5y ago
  Sounds like where I live in the Deep South except it’s 8am. The other day I woke up and it was 97% humidity and I could literally see the moisture in the air (not quite fog).
russellbeattie 5y ago
Apparently SF has hit 106°F before, which, given that the city is surrounded on three sides by the Pacific Ocean averaging around 56°F, is pretty amazing.
- oehtXRwMkIs 5y ago
  The heatwave last year was pretty bad, and with climate change the heat waves are supposed to get worse so the article seems intuitive to me.
- megameter 5y ago
  Normally, in the SF summertime, the prevaling wind is east by mid-afternoon and continues strong well into the evening. Thus the city hardly ever heats up or experiences bad air until August, when the weather system changes and the winds calm down. This also leads to a distinct pattern with wildfire smoke; so long as there isn't a buildup over the ocean, the city gets some relief until there's a day with no wind, at which point it gets as socked in as the rest of the Bay. Last year was particularly bad since the ocean air eventually did get polluted and it circulated until precipitation cleared it. So far things are holding up better this year, but we have a few months to go.

mmettler 5y ago

Who’s working on new heat pump tech other than Gradient?

dr_faustus 5y ago

Right, MORE air conditioning will solve our problems with global warming…

occz 5y ago
> Right, MORE air conditioning will solve our problems with global warming… I'm not sure that it will be optional, given where we're going with the climate crisis. We can probably mitigate most of their impact by reducing the impact of electricity production to zero, at which point we can hopefully address the refrigerant-issue.