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> It's now rude to just call someone on the phone without asking permission first. I've literally never heard of this. So much of my day-to-day work and person

> It's now rude to just call someone on the phone without asking permission first. I've literally never heard of this. So much of my day-to-day work and personal communication would pretty much never happen if I had to ask for permission every time before I called someone. Is it a millennial thing? Phones (telephones, that is) and phone numbers are exactly for spontaneous voice communication. If someone doesn't want to be called out of the blue, they can choose to not give their number out to people. Or for texting say, hey, here's my number but I'm so busy that texting is usually better for me. And with today's smartphones that tell you who is calling (or at least, whether or not it's someone you know), it's _way_ easier to decide whether or not to answer a call than it was two or three decades ago where the phone just rang and that was all you got.

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
I hate to tell you, but you may be one of those people we wish just texted every time we have to stop what we are doing and pick up a call. 99% of the time it could be handled better via a text or email, which allows both parties to answer when they can. It is infuriating when I have to spend 30 minutes of my day trying to phone people back and getting voice mail so that they can tell me something that was best put in a simple text.
- thesuperbigfrog 5y ago
  >> I hate to tell you, but you may be one of those people we wish just texted every time we have to stop what we are doing and pick up a call. >> 99% of the time it could be handled better via a text or email, which allows both parties to answer when they can. I think it depends very much on your relationship with the person with whom you are communicating and the conversation itself. The "bandwidth" of communication of a voice call is much higher than a text or email because of voice inflection, voice tone, and other audible factors. For example, you might be able to immediately tell that the person you called is sick and adjust your plans or request, but a text or email would not tell you that. A voice call also allows for quick clarifications that could take several rounds of texts or emails. This means that a 30 second phone call could be faster than several rounds of texts or emails spaced over several hours. A voice call is also better for more sensitive or urgent communication. Urgent or sensitive news conveyed over text or email can feel impersonal or even uncaring. For asynchronous one-way messages, I agree that texts or emails are better since they do not interfere and allow each side to handle responses asynchronously. >> It is infuriating when I have to spend 30 minutes of my day trying to phone people back and getting voice mail so that they can tell me something that was best put in a simple text. I completely agree. I HATE voice mail and have actually turned it off. People who know me and need a voice call can call back or try reaching me by text or email.
  - fuzzer37 5y ago
    > I completely agree. I HATE voice mail and have actually turned it off. People who know me and need a voice call can call back or try reaching me by text or email. Yeah... You're the kind of person people wish would just text us.
    - thesuperbigfrog 5y ago
      Honest question: Would you prefer to receive bad news by voice call or by text message? Personally, I would prefer to receive bad news by voice call, but I am curious about what others prefer and why.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Different solutions for different situations and people. I don't see the 99%, more frequently it's meetings that can be replaced by emails. Some of my customers are fine sending an email or creating a ticket, and are able to tell me in writing what they want. Others, I'd say around half, can't clearly tell me what they want. Maybe they don't know, or they don't fully understand the problem Either you send a few emails back and forth for a few days, trying to figure out what people want, wasting hours. Instead you can call the same people, and in less than 30 minutes have the job clearly defined. Then you still need to follow up via an email, so you have the clients OK in writing. It's not a generational thing, it's down to how different people best communicate, and what situation you're currently facing. The clean and clear dismissal of phone call as a means of communication isn't productive. My dismissal of texts in professional settings might also not be super productive, but that's would mean that I have to give out my cellphone number to clients, and that's not really happening.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
It’s a maker vs manager/sales thing.
version_five 5y ago
There seems to be some odd resentment to your point- the person implying that "makers" don't like taking calls, really? FWIW, I like the phone, it often let's things get resolved faster and avoid misunderstanding and promotes diplomacy.
- ddoolin 5y ago
  I get where they're coming from though. To me it's more of a personality trait than generational, and our industries do lend themselves to often extreme introversion. I agree with you, it's way faster to get through conversations on the phone. People forget that social norms also apply to texting and that can make them drawn out, before even thinking about how some people only respond in very wide intervals.
  - shawnz 5y ago
    Of course it's more convenient for the caller. But what about the receiver of the call? They might be in the middle of other tasks, and perhaps they want to have some time to plan their side of the conversation, as the caller did. I don't think the argument is that voice communication is not useful. The only issue is unsolicited calls.
    - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
      If you're not interested in taking, then don't answer?
      - shawnz 5y ago
        I already don't answer unsolicited calls. I am just explaining my rationale why that's the case.
joshstrange 5y ago
> Is it a millennial thing? It may be more of a millennial thing but I've heard this from both younger (Gen Z) and older (Gen X) people as well. It does depend on the type of call. If I run a business then I'm not expecting my vendors/clients to pre-schedule a call but if a friend calls I assume it's an emergency or extremely time-sensitive. I regularly send and receive "Are you free to talk?" SMS/iMessage/Discord/etc messages and only initiate calls without first asking if it's something that just can't wait (or in the case where we are about to meet up, like calling to say I'm almost there or calling to find someone at an event we are both attending). The only exception to this "rule" is my parents who regularly call me out of the blue (I get a text ~20% of the time max to ask if I'm free).
mLuby 5y ago
> they can choose to not give their number out to people I assure you, I did not give my number (or email) to the spammers who contact me multiple times a day. I'm sure they got it from some combination of public databases and data breaches. Like a fingerprint, I can't easily change my contact info, so here we are. I want the smartphone without the phone. Signal audio is often better quality anyway. Aside: I want callers who aren't explicitly in my phone's contacts to solve an audio CAPTCHA before my phone accepts their text/call/voicemail. This would not affect family or friends, would provide a path for important calls like medical, financial, or government calls, and would significantly increase the cost of spam.
handrous 5y ago
> Is it a millennial thing? "Elder millennial" here. Didn't have a cell phone until college, and then it was a dumb phone. Phone calls are my least favorite form of communication. Oddly enough, I'm fine with them in a business context, but personal? Don't call me unless someone's dying or I'm expecting a call from you. I will be annoyed otherwise. Either the person you're calling is ignoring all calls (phone silent and out of sight), or you're about to set off a blaring DEAL WITH THIS RIGHT THIS SECOND, DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING alarm for them (even if it's on vibrate, still, that's what it is). It's like yelling "I need your attention this second!". So it should be important enough to warrant abruptly interrupting someone who may be in the middle of who-knows-what. I felt very differently about this before cell phones. Yay! Someone called me! Now it's like, damnit, why are you being such a jerk by calling me when there's not something super-important and urgent going on? I think part of it's that home phones couldn't interrupt you everywhere at all times. Mostly just indoors, in your house.
tbihl 5y ago
No, I don't think it's a millenial thing. I agree with you completely.
deleted 5y ago
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JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

I hate to tell you, but you may be one of those people we wish just texted every time we have to stop what we are doing and pick up a call. 99% of the time it could be handled better via a text or email, which allows both parties to answer when they can. It is infuriating when I have to spend 30 minutes of my day trying to phone people back and getting voice mail so that they can tell me something that was best put in a simple text.

thesuperbigfrog 5y ago
>> I hate to tell you, but you may be one of those people we wish just texted every time we have to stop what we are doing and pick up a call. >> 99% of the time it could be handled better via a text or email, which allows both parties to answer when they can. I think it depends very much on your relationship with the person with whom you are communicating and the conversation itself. The "bandwidth" of communication of a voice call is much higher than a text or email because of voice inflection, voice tone, and other audible factors. For example, you might be able to immediately tell that the person you called is sick and adjust your plans or request, but a text or email would not tell you that. A voice call also allows for quick clarifications that could take several rounds of texts or emails. This means that a 30 second phone call could be faster than several rounds of texts or emails spaced over several hours. A voice call is also better for more sensitive or urgent communication. Urgent or sensitive news conveyed over text or email can feel impersonal or even uncaring. For asynchronous one-way messages, I agree that texts or emails are better since they do not interfere and allow each side to handle responses asynchronously. >> It is infuriating when I have to spend 30 minutes of my day trying to phone people back and getting voice mail so that they can tell me something that was best put in a simple text. I completely agree. I HATE voice mail and have actually turned it off. People who know me and need a voice call can call back or try reaching me by text or email.
- fuzzer37 5y ago
  > I completely agree. I HATE voice mail and have actually turned it off. People who know me and need a voice call can call back or try reaching me by text or email. Yeah... You're the kind of person people wish would just text us.
  - thesuperbigfrog 5y ago
    Honest question: Would you prefer to receive bad news by voice call or by text message? Personally, I would prefer to receive bad news by voice call, but I am curious about what others prefer and why.
mrweasel 5y ago
Different solutions for different situations and people. I don't see the 99%, more frequently it's meetings that can be replaced by emails. Some of my customers are fine sending an email or creating a ticket, and are able to tell me in writing what they want. Others, I'd say around half, can't clearly tell me what they want. Maybe they don't know, or they don't fully understand the problem Either you send a few emails back and forth for a few days, trying to figure out what people want, wasting hours. Instead you can call the same people, and in less than 30 minutes have the job clearly defined. Then you still need to follow up via an email, so you have the clients OK in writing. It's not a generational thing, it's down to how different people best communicate, and what situation you're currently facing. The clean and clear dismissal of phone call as a means of communication isn't productive. My dismissal of texts in professional settings might also not be super productive, but that's would mean that I have to give out my cellphone number to clients, and that's not really happening.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

It’s a maker vs manager/sales thing.

version_five 5y ago

There seems to be some odd resentment to your point- the person implying that "makers" don't like taking calls, really? FWIW, I like the phone, it often let's things get resolved faster and avoid misunderstanding and promotes diplomacy.

ddoolin 5y ago
I get where they're coming from though. To me it's more of a personality trait than generational, and our industries do lend themselves to often extreme introversion. I agree with you, it's way faster to get through conversations on the phone. People forget that social norms also apply to texting and that can make them drawn out, before even thinking about how some people only respond in very wide intervals.
- shawnz 5y ago
  Of course it's more convenient for the caller. But what about the receiver of the call? They might be in the middle of other tasks, and perhaps they want to have some time to plan their side of the conversation, as the caller did. I don't think the argument is that voice communication is not useful. The only issue is unsolicited calls.
  - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
    If you're not interested in taking, then don't answer?
    - shawnz 5y ago
      I already don't answer unsolicited calls. I am just explaining my rationale why that's the case.

joshstrange 5y ago

> Is it a millennial thing? It may be more of a millennial thing but I've heard this from both younger (Gen Z) and older (Gen X) people as well. It does depend on the type of call. If I run a business then I'm not expecting my vendors/clients to pre-schedule a call but if a friend calls I assume it's an emergency or extremely time-sensitive. I regularly send and receive "Are you free to talk?" SMS/iMessage/Discord/etc messages and only initiate calls without first asking if it's something that just can't wait (or in the case where we are about to meet up, like calling to say I'm almost there or calling to find someone at an event we are both attending). The only exception to this "rule" is my parents who regularly call me out of the blue (I get a text ~20% of the time max to ask if I'm free).

mLuby 5y ago

> they can choose to not give their number out to people I assure you, I did not give my number (or email) to the spammers who contact me multiple times a day. I'm sure they got it from some combination of public databases and data breaches. Like a fingerprint, I can't easily change my contact info, so here we are. I want the smartphone without the phone. Signal audio is often better quality anyway. Aside: I want callers who aren't explicitly in my phone's contacts to solve an audio CAPTCHA before my phone accepts their text/call/voicemail. This would not affect family or friends, would provide a path for important calls like medical, financial, or government calls, and would significantly increase the cost of spam.

handrous 5y ago

> Is it a millennial thing? "Elder millennial" here. Didn't have a cell phone until college, and then it was a dumb phone. Phone calls are my least favorite form of communication. Oddly enough, I'm fine with them in a business context, but personal? Don't call me unless someone's dying or I'm expecting a call from you. I will be annoyed otherwise. Either the person you're calling is ignoring all calls (phone silent and out of sight), or you're about to set off a blaring DEAL WITH THIS RIGHT THIS SECOND, DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING alarm for them (even if it's on vibrate, still, that's what it is). It's like yelling "I need your attention this second!". So it should be important enough to warrant abruptly interrupting someone who may be in the middle of who-knows-what. I felt very differently about this before cell phones. Yay! Someone called me! Now it's like, damnit, why are you being such a jerk by calling me when there's not something super-important and urgent going on? I think part of it's that home phones couldn't interrupt you everywhere at all times. Mostly just indoors, in your house.

tbihl 5y ago

No, I don't think it's a millenial thing. I agree with you completely.

deleted 5y ago

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