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You need to test ‘duh’ things because sometimes they’re right and sometimes they’re wrong. Doing this is good science. Flat Earth was ‘duh’ science at one poin

You need to test ‘duh’ things because sometimes they’re right and sometimes they’re wrong. Doing this is good science. Flat Earth was ‘duh’ science at one point. Good thing we tested it.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
> Flat Earth was ‘duh’ science at one point. This is probably a myth; anywhere you can see water, you can see things going over the horizon. We knew the Earth was round (and its size) well before circumnavigation.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  People didn’t understand the horizon. What do you think went over the horizon until we had ships? Many people would have never seen the sea or other large bodies of water as they didn’t travel far.
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    Fishers? Also, a flat stretch of land will do nicely, too. It doesn't take long to notice the discrepancy of hills… and we have the actual calculations of the ancients to prove that they knew; they're fairly accurate, too.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      You’re arguing against widely accepted facts. I don’t know why. > Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period (323 BC), the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period (31 BC), and China until the 17th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
      - wizzwizz4 5y ago
        I thought the classical period was earlier than that! Thanks for the correction.
      - Retric 5y ago
        That’s over stating the case, the Shield of Achilles doesn’t demonstrate a flat earth cosmology, and shields of that time period where generally curved not flat to provide better protection to the arm. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/3196_-_Athens_-_Stoà_of_Attalus_Museum_-_Spartan_shield_(425_BC)_-_Photo_by_Giovanni_Dall'Orto%2C_Nov_9_2009.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/3196_-_A... Indian philosophy uses a spherical earth in 6th century BC as well as many thinkers in Ancient Greece like Pythagoras.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        I don’t know what to say - that article includes countless examples of societies that thought the Earth was flat until they learned otherwise. If you’ve got other theories then great for you but I’m guessing they’re not mainstream.
        Retric 5y ago
        I am not disagreeing so much as saying there was more nuance. For a direct quote from that link: “early Muslims tended to also view the Earth as flat” In other words it was a common belief, but not universally accepted fact. So saying that culture believed in a flat earth isn’t true anymore than saying they believed the earth was round.
    - elzbardico 5y ago
      FWIW, when I was some 3 to 4 years old I remember I was a flat earther and even had nightmares about that. My mother had to actually explain to me that the world is an spheroid so I would stop having those terrifying nightmares where I fell off the edge of the world.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Most people lived near water for most of human history. As to seeing stuff across the horizon even static objects along shorelines show the same effect. You can’t see the base of trees across a large lake.
    - kbenson 5y ago
      Near water does not necessarily mean near an Ocean or Sea, or lake large enough to have similar properties with regard to the horizon. There are in fact many benefits to living next to a river or lake instead of the coast. A large one is that the water is mostly potable, instead of largely not. I would hazard a guess that most ancient coastal communities were actually ancient coastal river communities, and that rivers are actually the thing humans lived next to (there's some indication in the abstract here[1] that this is the case). If that's the case, proximity to water is a poor indication of how many people would have seen ships sailing over the horizon. As to how obvious bases of trees would be over large lakes, or how likely large lakes would be compared to the norm, I don't know. 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-08366-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-08366-z
      - Retric 5y ago
        This is largely about water as a home to food sources. Rising sea levels are believed to have covered the majority of Mesolithic cites. For populations constantly on the move it’s likely a majority of adults saw the ocean or a sufficiently large lake to show this effect. Realizing it was evidence of a round earth is of course a different story. My guess is most people simply never considered it.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Well lol go and tell them all this! I’m not responsible for their beliefs or why they believed it. Telling me that these people were unobservant for thinking the Earth was flat doesn’t change the fact that they did.
      - Retric 5y ago
        To be clear I am not saying nobody believed it, in many areas the majority of people likely believed in a flat earth if they thought of it at all. I am rather saying, belief that earth was round was also quite common in that time period and people had evidence for such beliefs.

You need to test ‘duh’ things because sometimes they’re right and sometimes they’re wrong. Doing this is good science. Flat Earth was ‘duh’ science at one point. Good thing we tested it.

wizzwizz4 5y ago

> Flat Earth was ‘duh’ science at one point. This is probably a myth; anywhere you can see water, you can see things going over the horizon. We knew the Earth was round (and its size) well before circumnavigation.

chrisseaton 5y ago
People didn’t understand the horizon. What do you think went over the horizon until we had ships? Many people would have never seen the sea or other large bodies of water as they didn’t travel far.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  Fishers? Also, a flat stretch of land will do nicely, too. It doesn't take long to notice the discrepancy of hills… and we have the actual calculations of the ancients to prove that they knew; they're fairly accurate, too.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    You’re arguing against widely accepted facts. I don’t know why. > Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period (323 BC), the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period (31 BC), and China until the 17th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      I thought the classical period was earlier than that! Thanks for the correction.
    - Retric 5y ago
      That’s over stating the case, the Shield of Achilles doesn’t demonstrate a flat earth cosmology, and shields of that time period where generally curved not flat to provide better protection to the arm. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/3196_-_Athens_-_Stoà_of_Attalus_Museum_-_Spartan_shield_(425_BC)_-_Photo_by_Giovanni_Dall'Orto%2C_Nov_9_2009.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/3196_-_A... Indian philosophy uses a spherical earth in 6th century BC as well as many thinkers in Ancient Greece like Pythagoras.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        I don’t know what to say - that article includes countless examples of societies that thought the Earth was flat until they learned otherwise. If you’ve got other theories then great for you but I’m guessing they’re not mainstream.
        Retric 5y ago
        I am not disagreeing so much as saying there was more nuance. For a direct quote from that link: “early Muslims tended to also view the Earth as flat” In other words it was a common belief, but not universally accepted fact. So saying that culture believed in a flat earth isn’t true anymore than saying they believed the earth was round.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    FWIW, when I was some 3 to 4 years old I remember I was a flat earther and even had nightmares about that. My mother had to actually explain to me that the world is an spheroid so I would stop having those terrifying nightmares where I fell off the edge of the world.
- Retric 5y ago
  Most people lived near water for most of human history. As to seeing stuff across the horizon even static objects along shorelines show the same effect. You can’t see the base of trees across a large lake.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    Near water does not necessarily mean near an Ocean or Sea, or lake large enough to have similar properties with regard to the horizon. There are in fact many benefits to living next to a river or lake instead of the coast. A large one is that the water is mostly potable, instead of largely not. I would hazard a guess that most ancient coastal communities were actually ancient coastal river communities, and that rivers are actually the thing humans lived next to (there's some indication in the abstract here[1] that this is the case). If that's the case, proximity to water is a poor indication of how many people would have seen ships sailing over the horizon. As to how obvious bases of trees would be over large lakes, or how likely large lakes would be compared to the norm, I don't know. 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-08366-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-08366-z
    - Retric 5y ago
      This is largely about water as a home to food sources. Rising sea levels are believed to have covered the majority of Mesolithic cites. For populations constantly on the move it’s likely a majority of adults saw the ocean or a sufficiently large lake to show this effect. Realizing it was evidence of a round earth is of course a different story. My guess is most people simply never considered it.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Well lol go and tell them all this! I’m not responsible for their beliefs or why they believed it. Telling me that these people were unobservant for thinking the Earth was flat doesn’t change the fact that they did.
    - Retric 5y ago
      To be clear I am not saying nobody believed it, in many areas the majority of people likely believed in a flat earth if they thought of it at all. I am rather saying, belief that earth was round was also quite common in that time period and people had evidence for such beliefs.