3 ms·

So, in other words, that means that, even if "calories in, calories out" might be trivially true, which I would still imagine it is because thermodynamics, it's

So, in other words, that means that, even if "calories in, calories out" might be trivially true, which I would still imagine it is because thermodynamics, it's not actually useful as weight loss advice? Because the human body is not a passive system. It has all sorts of autonomic processes designed to control both calories in and calories out, and they have a tendency to subvert and/or counteract anything you're consciously doing to adjust your overall energy intake and expenditure. I'm obviously no health scientist, but, just thinking out loud, that seems pretty believable? Partially because, of course, nothing's ever that simple. But also, speaking purely speculatively, I can't imagine my body responds to me consuming a 1,500 calorie holiday meal by immediately producing three more pounds of fat tissue, and then making it disappear the very next day. So, even from that, it seems implausible that the body's arsenal of ways to deal with simple day-to-day and hour-to-hour variation in energy consumption has to go way beyond simply growing and consuming new tissue. Which is what it would seem to imply if useful weight loss advice really could be as simple as "calories in, calories out." Elsewhere I linked an article on the variability of the brain's calorie consumption, and one of the sources it cited was a table of calorie expenditure per hour across several activity types. Including things like reading a book or preparing a meal. It wasn't nearly detailed enough to know for sure, but, based on what I saw from a cursory glance, it seemed at least plausible that your body could completely counteract several hundred calories' worth of reduced food consumption by, say, simply making you unconsciously be a little bit less fidgety throughout the day.

deegles 5y ago
This study says that women feel hunger more strongly than men due to physical differences in the brain. True or not, the idea that some people just feel more hunger for the same amount of calorie deficit could explain a lot. Also, "calories in, calories out" is the second thought-terminating cliche[1] I've encountered today! [0] https://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=110876 https://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=110876 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...
flurie 5y ago
I would still suggest that "calories in, calories out" is still solid weight loss advice. There are two major confounding issues that might make it appear incorrect. The first is that out is variable, and the second is that some parts of the system are noisy. The solution to both is to try to measure accurately and frequently. The best things one can do to achieve this are daily weigh-ins at approximately the same time and trying to account for the bulk of one's caloric and macronutrient intake.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  Is it, though? To me, part of what qualifies advice as solid is that it has to help people who take it achieve the desired outcome. My understanding is that there's a staggering lack of evidence that that is the case. And not for lack of people looking for it. Which leaves me thinking that this is an idea whose memetic fitness far exceeds its practical value. The elephant in the room here is the article itself. The basic premise here is that internal bodily processes can increase your energy expenditure by as much as several thousand calories over the course of the day, even when you're being physically sedentary. And if it can autonomically increase the burn rate, surely it can also autonomically decrease it. I've certainly noticed that I have a more difficult time thinking clearly on days when I'm not eating as much as usual. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar thing happens if I take a long bike ride without eating any extra food. Though this isn't something I've paid attention to in the past, so I suppose I don't really know. But still, if the body increases calorie expenditure during periods of higher brain activity, then it is certainly just as capable of reducing brain activity in response to a reduction in readily available energy.
  - flurie 5y ago
    I certainly can't speak for you, but it has worked quite well for me as I described it, for both gaining and losing weight as needed. I sympathize with people who do a poor job of measuring, either through inconsistency or incorrect calculation, but we don't blame the game of chess for people who play it poorly or suggest that they are evidence that it does not provide value to those who do, do we?
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
One self-regulating thing really does exist. If you are already overweight, the body can self-regulate itself, by extracting fewer calories from processing from eaten food. You can take in food for 3000kcal, but the already overweight body can take in just 2700. This has only one effect: when a person decides to lose weight, it'll make it harder for him, because eating slightly less than will have no effect at all, and the body is already used to eating a lot, so reduction in incoming food brings immediate discomfort. But the opposite direction is rock solid: if you don't eat enough to compensate your passive calorie burn, you will not gain weight ever. Anyway, this method helped me to go from 96 kg to 83 kg in 10 weeks, taking on average 1750..1900 kcal per day. For me it turned out pretty easy. First two weeks were the hardest, and I took in up to 2000 kcal, gradually bringing it lower.

deegles 5y ago

This study says that women feel hunger more strongly than men due to physical differences in the brain. True or not, the idea that some people just feel more hunger for the same amount of calorie deficit could explain a lot. Also, "calories in, calories out" is the second thought-terminating cliche[1] I've encountered today! [0] https://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=110876 https://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=110876 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

flurie 5y ago

I would still suggest that "calories in, calories out" is still solid weight loss advice. There are two major confounding issues that might make it appear incorrect. The first is that out is variable, and the second is that some parts of the system are noisy. The solution to both is to try to measure accurately and frequently. The best things one can do to achieve this are daily weigh-ins at approximately the same time and trying to account for the bulk of one's caloric and macronutrient intake.

mumblemumble 5y ago
Is it, though? To me, part of what qualifies advice as solid is that it has to help people who take it achieve the desired outcome. My understanding is that there's a staggering lack of evidence that that is the case. And not for lack of people looking for it. Which leaves me thinking that this is an idea whose memetic fitness far exceeds its practical value. The elephant in the room here is the article itself. The basic premise here is that internal bodily processes can increase your energy expenditure by as much as several thousand calories over the course of the day, even when you're being physically sedentary. And if it can autonomically increase the burn rate, surely it can also autonomically decrease it. I've certainly noticed that I have a more difficult time thinking clearly on days when I'm not eating as much as usual. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar thing happens if I take a long bike ride without eating any extra food. Though this isn't something I've paid attention to in the past, so I suppose I don't really know. But still, if the body increases calorie expenditure during periods of higher brain activity, then it is certainly just as capable of reducing brain activity in response to a reduction in readily available energy.
- flurie 5y ago
  I certainly can't speak for you, but it has worked quite well for me as I described it, for both gaining and losing weight as needed. I sympathize with people who do a poor job of measuring, either through inconsistency or incorrect calculation, but we don't blame the game of chess for people who play it poorly or suggest that they are evidence that it does not provide value to those who do, do we?

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

One self-regulating thing really does exist. If you are already overweight, the body can self-regulate itself, by extracting fewer calories from processing from eaten food. You can take in food for 3000kcal, but the already overweight body can take in just 2700. This has only one effect: when a person decides to lose weight, it'll make it harder for him, because eating slightly less than will have no effect at all, and the body is already used to eating a lot, so reduction in incoming food brings immediate discomfort. But the opposite direction is rock solid: if you don't eat enough to compensate your passive calorie burn, you will not gain weight ever. Anyway, this method helped me to go from 96 kg to 83 kg in 10 weeks, taking on average 1750..1900 kcal per day. For me it turned out pretty easy. First two weeks were the hardest, and I took in up to 2000 kcal, gradually bringing it lower.